Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 194
# 21
01-13-2013, 11:32 AM
this was why i gave up on pvp way too many lockbox ships there.only a elite pvp player has a chance to beat a jem ship with out one i know because i have one and know what it can do.

the only people that ive seen defending jem ships are the ones that fly them. i saw one tank vs 3 escorts and 2 cruisers(i know these people and they were not pushovers) and then say that it is not op. i call epic targ dropings on that. the other ships arnt much more powerful then the average ship in my experience.

Last edited by silverashes1; 01-13-2013 at 11:34 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 22
01-13-2013, 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverashes1 View Post
this was why i gave up on pvp way too many lockbox ships there.only a elite pvp player has a chance to beat a jem ship with out one i know because i have one and know what it can do.

the only people that ive seen defending jem ships are the ones that fly them. i saw one tank vs 3 escorts and 2 cruisers(i know these people and they were not pushovers) and then say that it is not op. i call epic targ dropings on that. the other ships arnt much more powerful then the average ship in my experience.
I'm not sure I've seen anyone saying the bug-ships aren't OP, the argument has just been that if you put the same players in lesser ships they'd still demolish people. That's likely true, since the type of person who has a bug is likely to have the best consoles and doffs anyway, and they're likely to have tons of experience.

It does always seem a little cheesy when I'm in a patrol escort that has gear that I literally spent one day doing missions over and over to accumulate, and I end up dogfighting a Bug named 'PvP Bootcamp' over and over. In an actual bootcamp, the most important quality in instructors is that they 'be, know, do'. Ideally drill instructors should be people you want the trainees to emulate.

I've never seen someone who advertises the PvP Bootcamp using anything that a noob PvPer could be expected to obtain. Ideally they's all be using ships and gear equivalent to what's in Hilbert's guide.

I know that they are some of the best players in the game, but it's still just seems cheesy when you are in and actual starter escort and you spend half a match dancing with a bug-ship only to have that guy advertising the bootcamp at the end of the match. It would just be a lot cooler if those guys ate their own dogfood.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,737
# 23
01-13-2013, 12:20 PM
Bs on the Bugs are OP nonsense.

In my Sci a Bug better make sure his team puts me down first, or I'm going to make his life a living hell and help my Escorts blow him up.

Ask destroyed Bugs if they really think my control, confuse, disable, debuff is inconsequential. There's a reason I get re-targeted almost immediately after they respawn.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 24
01-13-2013, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Bs on the Bugs are OP nonsense.

In my Sci a Bug better make sure his team puts me down first, or I'm going to make his life a living hell and help my Escorts blow him up.

Ask destroyed Bugs if they really think my control, confuse, disable, debuff is inconsequential. There's a reason I get re-targeted almost immediately after they respawn.
My sci does okay against them, but my sci does alright against any escort. My tac/escort just can't win against them because they turn so much better than a patrol escort, and have a higher impulse modifier, and a higher shield modifier, and tougher hulls, and more shields, and more tac consoles, and more engineering consoles, and a couple of universal boffs.

The only thing the patrol escort has over the bug is one more science console.

That's what I mean about the PvP bootcamp guys not practicing what they preach -- you only ever see them in ships that are vastly superior to what noobs might be able to acquire.

If you cross ship types, then that of course will change things, but the bugs don't have any particular weakness that other escorts don't have.



I don't mean it as an insult against those guys -- I know they are genuinely trying to help. But if they want people to follow their example (which they obviuously do given that some have renamed their ships to 'PvP Bootcamp') it would work a lot better if they set an example. Their preferred ship has several advantages and no deficiencies.

Last edited by inktomi19; 01-13-2013 at 12:52 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 194
# 25
01-13-2013, 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inktomi19 View Post
My sci does okay against them, but my sci does alright against any escort. My tac/escort just can't win against them because they turn so much better than a patrol escort, and had tougher hulls, and more shields, and more tac consoles, and more engineering consoles, and a couple of universal boffs.

The only thing the patrol escort has over the bug is one more science console.

That's what I mean about the PvP bootcamp guys not practicing what they preach -- you only ever see them in ships that are vastly superior to what noobs might be able to acquire.

If you cross ship types, then that of course will change things, but the bugs don't have any particular weakness that other escorts don't have.



I don't mean it as an insult against those guys -- I know they are genuinely trying to help. But if they want people to follow their example (which they obviuously do given that some have renamed their ships to 'PvP Bootcamp') it would work a lot better if they set an example. Their preferred ship has several advantages and no deficiencies.


tru ive only seen 1 pvp bootcamp not in a lockbox ship all the rest were in bugs or temporal destroyers. i refused to fly my bug until it is brought closer to the other escorts and what did they do? buff the thing to fleet lvl(witch it did not need) and the only way ive seen to take down a bug is snb and a escort wich is why sci seems so effective but that works on all ships so not realy saying much
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 26
01-13-2013, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverashes1 View Post
tru ive only seen 1 pvp bootcamp not in a lockbox ship all the rest were in bugs or temporal destroyers. i refused to fly my bug until it is brought closer to the other escorts and what did they do? buff the thing to fleet lvl(witch it did not need) and the only way ive seen to take down a bug is snb and a escort wich is why sci seems so effective but that works on all ships so not realy saying much
To be fair, I have seen guys in star cruisers advertising the bootcamp. And all the paid cruisers seem closer in effectiveness to the star cruiser than the bug is to the starter escorts.

If you're talking about an escort vs escort fight, even the fleet patrol cruiser is closer to the vanilla model than the bug, since the turn rates are very close. The bug basically has the agility of a bird of prey, but the sturdiness of a fed escort. Escort vs. BoP fights can be a little balanced because the escort is more able to take damage so it can compensate for not getting it's guns on target as easily. But an escort has no advantage at all over a bug.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 27
01-13-2013, 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastion84 View Post
So this was originally a forum post to address some issues in PVP.. It was ridiculed by many alike.. I admit i may have been unclear on some points, but that is not what i would like to discuss.. This is what i would like to discuss...

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...=493551&page=9

So the Sad Panda member who ridiculed this post.. well it seems this person was partly responsible for the cancellation of a PVP tournament. Makes me laugh a lot.. Oh and to make it better said players post was removed due to a breach in the Community Rules and Policies.. LOL @ said player!

I am sure said player will comment the heck outta this post, but i just wanted to get my 2 cents in.. I am done with this forum topic now, I have had my chuckle for the month, Thanks Sad Pandas!

-Seb.


Oh PS: To the said player of this post from Sad Pandas.. i have this to say.. Class move by ruining a pvp tournament for everyone else ^_^
As far as I understand it, it was the first two messages in that series of moderated posts that stepped over the line. The last two posts (including Brandon's) were not censored for violating the forum rules, but because they quoted and referenced the second post which divulged private and personal correspondence on the forums.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 28
01-13-2013, 05:33 PM
Until pug vs. pre made stops being such a massive miserable experience and pvp becomes popular enough to have decent gamescore matching, I consider STO pvp dead and buried.

There are no good rewards, the system is riddled with massive, deep problems that STO has taken precisely 0 changes to improve.

Which is a shame, because when I was last active, pvp was occasionally really really fun. The occasions just unfortunately became increasingly ... occasional.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 29
01-13-2013, 06:02 PM
The state of PvP is bad....

Whether its the Pandas and friends who go play other games and brag about their success here

Where people constantly call hax or bash you for using self proclaimed "broken" items

Whether We cant even get a PVP Tournament together hosted by the members because people cant deside what is broken and what is not, bashing each other because of lavish egos of their conquest in PvP. (And for the record PvP Community, if it has a counter, it should be allowable)

This is why I dont want my fleet participating in Tournaments or go against other major fleets. We just help aid other lesser known fleets who want to better themselves on a pvp scale.

I thought PvP coaching was a step in the right direction... but I guess not.

I'm guessing PvP is lacking some serious leadership... It Started with PvP Bootcamp, that is where it will continue, I will get in contact with the Leaders of PvP Bootcamp and discuss it there after I start to resolve this mess
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 30
01-13-2013, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastion84 View Post
So this was originally a forum post to address some issues in PVP.. It was ridiculed by many alike.. I admit i may have been unclear on some points, but that is not what i would like to discuss.. This is what i would like to discuss...

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...=493551&page=9

So the Sad Panda member who ridiculed this post.. well it seems this person was partly responsible for the cancellation of a PVP tournament. Makes me laugh a lot.. Oh and to make it better said players post was removed due to a breach in the Community Rules and Policies.. LOL @ said player!

I am sure said player will comment the heck outta this post, but i just wanted to get my 2 cents in.. I am done with this forum topic now, I have had my chuckle for the month, Thanks Sad Pandas!

-Seb.


Oh PS: To the said player of this post from Sad Pandas.. i have this to say.. Class move by ruining a pvp tournament for everyone else ^_^
Sad Pandas havent been a factor in PvP since they left for GW2, but the ones that have stayed, dont ruin it for us
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
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