Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 200
# 101
01-10-2013, 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliftona91 View Post
Well also to be fair, there are a couple of his videos in which he successfully alpha striked some of the big name people that we see in the OPVP channel. I distinctly remember him shooting down one of the Sad Pandas, Devoras of The Spanish Inquisition, and others.

So it isn't all noobs he's assassinating.
i use to do the alpha attacks like that with a defiant its all luck if the target is moving and is not being ganked and kinda ready for it if they are siting still buf up and boom if they are under attack wait tell tt is on cd buff up pray and boom lol.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 102
01-10-2013, 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Lol. I want say hax, but STO is as buggy as a loaf of bread full of weevils so this doesn't surprise me.


On the idea that Thisler put forward. If Escorts have gotten a 10% bonus defense modifier to reflect thier speed in combat then cruisers need something to reflect thier shear mass being able to absorb more damage before structurial breakdown occurs.

Seems only fair, if Escorts benefit from being zippy then Cruisers need something for being massive.
Cruisers have stronger healing, more power to aux and shields, and more hull. I don't think those quite make up for the lower defense as they are, but that's not nothing.

I have a cruiser and an escort which are both pretty vanilla, neither of which gets any bonuses to defense from anything other than captain skills and speed -- both are near their cap when running at full speed. I think I probably run the cruiser faster more often, since it's a lot easier to keep it's firing arcs. But the point is that on the defense alone, the cruiser isn't that bad off.

Where the cruiser suffers is that it's options for escaping movement impairing effects are a lot more limited. I think things might balance out if the defense penalty for standing still were removed though. It wouldn't stop people from using tractor beams and warp plasma, because there are too many other benefits to stopping your enemy from moving. There's just no need to do extra damage on top of it.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,961
# 103
01-11-2013, 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliftona91 View Post
Well also to be fair, there are a couple of his videos in which he successfully alpha striked some of the big name people that we see in the OPVP channel. I distinctly remember him shooting down one of the Sad Pandas, Devoras of The Spanish Inquisition, and others.

So it isn't all noobs he's assassinating.
heres one were he repeatedly failed to kill me, in the fattest most awkward thing he could hope to get a shot at, the falaxy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL1Z...U&feature=plcp

it was interesting enough to include, a bop blowing up isnt that interesting really.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordlalo View Post
I just wanted to say, I've never seen a more disturbing avatar
the pvp build and help thread
gateway links(should actually work now) -->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 104
01-11-2013, 02:48 AM
OP, you have a beautiful sig, and your friend is an amazing artist.

Anyways, that's all I wanted to say, carry on.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
# 105
01-13-2013, 10:58 AM
Aside from the antagonistic but clearly tongue in cheek title, I don't really understand some of the push back here. I was skeptical at first but with a closer look, and some clarification from RedRicky, this sounds pretty reasonable.

I know there are a lot of ways to keep moving when things work right but I wouldn't be against working out something where defense isn't tied strictly to speed. Ideally, normalizing evasion, resistance, and damage mitigation could lead to the end of yoyo healing which I don't see as a bad thing. I'd like to see mass and inertia make a bit more sense, so escorts and raiders don't stop a cruiser on a dime thanks to tractor beams. Cruisers and Science ships might just drift out of a plasma cloud, slowed but not dead in the water.

I'm not ready to jump on the "cruisers are worthless" bandwagon but I'd prefer to see them have higher hull capacity and some resistance to crit severity independent of speed based evasion/avoidance. It might play better to their strength as a massive damage sponge. The idea of science ships getting some kind of innate electronic or magic power resistance seems interesting too. But anything like that really makes yoyo healing a tremendous problem. Healing would have to move away from the spike heals to more resistance and damage mitigation. Hull recovery should be slow during combat and boosted greatly outside of red alert (to keep thing from being a boring wait and heal situation).

I don't know. I'm just rambling. As someone who dies frequently and fails to kill just as much, I do believe that defense, as a result of being so closely related to speed and speed alone, has given us this toxic environment of crazy crits and yoyo healing. I just think some of the points being made here might be more interesting.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,829
# 106
01-13-2013, 11:21 AM
The big issue for yo-yo healing is simple a ratio thing along with a double dip issue.

1) Having the heals be so strong everyone and there brother can restore even half of their total health in a few seconds is bad. This has to do with passive regeneration from shields along with the raw amounts that abilities tend to heal for with decent and easy to get skills.

2) Having abilities like EPTS that do three things at once is not good. It gives a flat heal, increases resists, and at the same time increases shield power which increases passive shield regeneration and resistances again. This single ability nearly doubles a ships EHP over time. The vast majority of heals also provide a boatload of resistance at the same time.

3) The game mechanics are SPIKEY in design. A smooth design would have a miss deal half damage with accuracy increasing that damage and defense increasing the chance. Crit severity is beginning to go into the roof as well. And finally your resists when buffed are extremely high both shield and hull while without buffs it tends to be significantly lower.

The core reason is this game was not designed to scale very well and we are far past the point of the original design scaling.

Suggested Fix?
- Remove shield regeneration from shield power
- Add hull resist to auxiliary power
- Move bonus defense from speed to engine power
- Modify accuracy/defense system as I proposed above
- Across the board resist nerfs on abilities
- Increase hull/shields by a tad
- Reduce skill modifier on heals from .5 to .25 or .33
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
# 107
01-14-2013, 01:48 AM
All of those are very interesting proposals but the one I'd like to touch on first is moving Defense from Speed to Engine Power. That at first seems so simple and so perfect. The concern that comes to mind though is how easy it is for a ship to cap and hold their power above 100 in 3-4 systems at a time. While this would certainly favor Cruisers, it would also greatly benefit Aux2Bat users, over powered drain pets/builds, and people using batteries with such short cool downs. How do you stop invulnerability? Or is it that we just can't decouple speed and defense? We have to make a few, or all, of the changes suggested?

Not that it would be the worst thing. It would just be a pretty major change and sometimes we don't fair too well with that around here.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,829
# 108
01-14-2013, 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
All of those are very interesting proposals but the one I'd like to touch on first is moving Defense from Speed to Engine Power. That at first seems so simple and so perfect. The concern that comes to mind though is how easy it is for a ship to cap and hold their power above 100 in 3-4 systems at a time. While this would certainly favor Cruisers, it would also greatly benefit Aux2Bat users, over powered drain pets/builds, and people using batteries with such short cool downs. How do you stop invulnerability? Or is it that we just can't decouple speed and defense? We have to make a few, or all, of the changes suggested?

Not that it would be the worst thing. It would just be a pretty major change and sometimes we don't fair too well with that around here.
Keep in mind the idea takes into account changing a 'miss' into a 'glancing hit' that does half damage instead of no damage. So the basic concept is you have 1 offensive subsystem power, then the other 3 subsystems increase your ships damage 'mitigation' in some way that may be preferable to you than another.

But I would also keep engine power's modifier to defense as a curve with diminished returns at high levels similar to how it currently effects max speed and turn rate. You need to increase the 'standard always on' mitigation level of ships and reduce the amount gained from abilities.

Game balance is less about OP and UP and has everything to do with ratios. The actual numbers are irrelevant. And ratios tend to get fubared when your game system mechanics have funky scaling like STOs do which has led to the current state of the game.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 119
# 109
01-14-2013, 06:32 AM
your video in cap n lols is not current to today arean climate go play arena and learn
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
# 110
01-14-2013, 07:18 AM
It does expose mechanics that translate to other aspects of the game. Defense is defense regardless of the map.

Arena snobs are teh lawlz.
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