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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 21
01-14-2013, 04:06 PM
Would it solve anythong though?

Some players will still complain that Escorts and Tacs are too OP even if tac/escorts didnt have anythong but BOff powers to fall back on.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
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Posts: 6,766
# 22
01-14-2013, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
One thing I'd like to see is a bonus to a ships primary purpose. A Cruiser puts out stronger heals, science ships have stronger crowd control, and escorts have stronger tactical skills. Engineering Team might do 8k hull heal, but the same ET would only heal 6k from a Science ship and 4k from an Escort. Sure, this is already the case based on bridge officer slots, console slots, and the like but I'm thinking more like each ship would come with an innate bonus to certain areas of the skill tree.

For example, a pure science ship like the intrepid would have +18 to every skill in the skill tree just by virtue of equipping that ship. It would make science captains that much stronger for min/maxing or they could be more well rounded by virtue of having all those free skill points to put in other areas. For an Assault Cruiser, they'd get something like an innate +18 to parts of the Engineering skill tree as well as portions of the Tactical skill tree.

Also, do away with the innate power bonus that is distinct to each ship type (Escorts +15 to Weapons, Science +15 to Aux). Innate power bonus should be to Cruisers alone, they should have a higher power level potential, and more efficient usage from power enhancing abilities (like batteries, EPtx, EPS, and so on).

I don't suspect any of this would go over particularly well as a complete revamp would obviously be required. But maybe some of this stuff could be used to make better, more interesting distinctions between new ships. There are only so many new ways to do things based on bridge officer and console slots.
I like the idea that a vessels design would buff the class intended for it as the primary but non- primary classes perform a little under par in trade off for what they bring to the build. Its an idea that is only brushed at currently though in S1.2 it seemed more a factor in design.
It would stack well with the idea that "traditional" technologies work best with factions that designed them.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 23
01-14-2013, 04:55 PM
I find the idea fascinating but i fear players will be piedgonhold to certain ships. But i would like to see captain abilities being mixed so i can run some tac cap abilities, and some sci cap abilties. Would offer lots of fun and variety.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 24
01-14-2013, 05:19 PM
umm lol@thred
Empire Veteran
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Posts: 2,202
# 25
01-14-2013, 05:20 PM
Eh, did you get your ass kicked by a sci in an escort. Get over it, or better, get your own.

As a general rule, if you think it's op then do it before complaining about what others do, you'll notice that everything has drawbacks and that there is no magic but a wise use of what the game has to offer. A

And if it's really "op" (I don't think there's something completely killing pvp right now but anyway) then keep doing it because itmeans others don't have the IQ to counter it.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,666
# 26
01-14-2013, 05:28 PM
Soph took something I had said and posted it in its own thread:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=489841

Which was originally posted in this thread:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=485671

Basically this part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I wish that space worked more like kits on the ground or even like the new rep system.

You're ready to pick your first ability - you have two options. That's right, it's not a case that you automatically get one of the five above - but you have a choice of two for each one. Okay, maybe it's a choice of two for four of the five (odd how this looks like the rep system, eh? 4 choices and a fixed? Wonder if they've been thinking about this too?).

It would not be as open as the rep system choices - it would be more along the lines of how the Romulan and Omega rep vary - each offers a choice of an offensive or defensive passive, but they are not the same choices for each. Romulan offers +3% crit, while Omega offers +30 Weapon Skill - both offensive passives, but different.

So for Tac, Eng, and Sci - each would have a choice of an "offensive" or "defensive" ability for each of the first four abilities... each would reflect the nature of the career.

A Tac offensive ability would not be the same as a Sci offensive ability would not be the same as an Eng offensive ability. The same for the defensive option for each.

A person could build a more offensive Engineer, a more defensive Tactical, or even a 50/50 offensive/defensive Science... or the defensive Engineer, 50/50 Tac, etc, etc, etc, etc.
It was just a quick blurb - not even sure how it came up in the original thread which was a thread I was talking about the unlikelihood of the Sarr Theln Warship Carrier being in the Dominion Lockbox...weird, eh?

In general, I find the Careers to be somewhat off in space. On the ground, you've got the limited kits you can run and you have some actual different skills. Add in the innate abilities, and you've got three things that differentiate the Careers on the ground.

In space, it's just the five innate abilities. The skills are the same. The ships/BOFF layouts are the same. Compared to ground, it really lacks "flavor"...I guess you might call it.

Which kind of brings up two points:

1) Should space be more "limited" like Ground? Not necessarily limiting to ships, but even in creating bonuses for flying certain ships - you're going to be looking at that feeling of being pigeonholed. Tacs getting a bonus for Escorts, Raptors, BoPs, Destroyers? Engs getting a bonus for Cruisers? Do Tacs and Engs get a smaller bonus for Warships and Battle Cruisers? Where are the ships for KDF so the Sci gets a bonus? This just starts to become pretty problematic from the start, eh?

2) Complexity and Balance. While a more complex system that offers more choices could offer more flavor and fun... those additional variables will make it that much more difficult for some semblance of balance to be maintained, no?

On the Ground, I get a feeling of being a Tac, Sci, or Eng. I definitely feel that difference. It's there, like I said, in kits - innate abilities - even the different skills for those kits/abilities.

In Space, well...I've got 5 abilities that may or may not be on CD - that may or may not be stripped or cleansed the moment I use them... then I'm just back to everything else being the same as if it didn't matter what Career I picked.

One could say, that in space - Career choice is little more than having picked a space kit. You picked the Tac kit that gives you 5 abilities, or you picked Sci/Eng for the 5 abilities that come with their respective kits.

Perhaps this comes about because of thinking lolground. The combination of Ground and Space defines the character better than either alone, but still - there's no denying (imho) the lack of definition in space. It's just a case of picking a 5 ability kit...it's not a career.


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 27
01-14-2013, 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post

And if it's really "op" (I don't think there's something completely killing pvp right now but anyway) then keep doing it because itmeans others don't have the IQ to counter it.
With this reasoning you just gave justification to use whatever skills/doff/console regardless how "cheese" or "broken" it is, due to lack of IQ of the opponent.

Right....
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Empire Veteran
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Posts: 6,766
# 28
01-14-2013, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
I find the idea fascinating but i fear players will be piedgonhold to certain ships. But i would like to see captain abilities being mixed so i can run some tac cap abilities, and some sci cap abilties. Would offer lots of fun and variety.
Wasnt the First Officer idea suppossed to do something like that but on a smaller slightly weaker scale?
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 29
01-14-2013, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Wasnt the First Officer idea suppossed to do something like that but on a smaller slightly weaker scale?
IIRC til back then, yes. But somehow it didnt get implemented. For what reason i dont know.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 30
01-14-2013, 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivantomdisplay View Post
Stop with the "Remove-s" threads.
"Scissors beats paper. Scissors is OP. Nerf it please."
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