Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,913
# 71
01-13-2013, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crusty8mac View Post
I'm even older. Beware the "stuff". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtL_PasQefI
And hotdogs that scream. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSmu_JDtzVM
I was too young in the 60's to even know what drugs were...

Quote:
Originally Posted by admgreer View Post
If you read this entire post and others about the frustration players have about PUGS and SFTs you take away this: Its the lack of communication. People not having chat up or not speaking English. And players that have no Idea what they are doing or how to do it failing the mission for the rest of the team. They wont ask questions, they wont read the chat. They just go off on thier own and screw everything up. Being under powered is okay, Being new is ok, Just ask questions or read the walkthrough on the forums or just listen to what people are putting in the chat when your in the STF and everything would be much better. But AFK'rs need to be lined up and Shot.
...and not alive in the 50's to even care.

...... DaveyNY ...STO Forum Member since February - 2009
..............Star Trek Fan since Thursday Sept. 8th, 1966
There are No Longer any STO Veterans... We're Just People who have Played the Game for the last 4.5 years.
I Really Do Miss the little TOP Button at the bottom of the threads.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 72
01-14-2013, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
F
AOE, on CSE, is idiocy for anyone NOT doing solo-Kang-Guard duty.
hm. my Vesta deals 9k DPS usually with only AoE effects on in CSE, taking all the aggro. pls tell me what am I doing wrong. I take out two probes while the rest of the team takes out one, I kill incoming heavy torps (which are coming at me usually, so its not much of a help to team anyways, unless you count taking aggro useful), AoE is always higher DPS if there are more targets, and if you know how to use it, its better

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post

RML only works with a good team specced the right way, who've got excellent communication between team members running the right builds, skills, and powers to pull it off.
I cannot imagine what "excellent" communication is needed in rml lol. you go in, blow cubes, one defends and blows probes on middle and left

Last edited by ferdzso0; 01-14-2013 at 06:43 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,619
# 73
01-15-2013, 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferdzso0 View Post
hm. my Vesta deals 9k DPS usually with only AoE effects on in CSE, taking all the aggro. pls tell me what am I doing wrong. I take out two probes while the rest of the team takes out one, I kill incoming heavy torps (which are coming at me usually, so its not much of a help to team anyways, unless you count taking aggro useful), AoE is always higher DPS if there are more targets, and if you know how to use it, its better


I cannot imagine what "excellent" communication is needed in rml lol. you go in, blow cubes, one defends and blows probes on middle and left
alright, Kirk, here's the deal: your method usually leads to mission-failure, when it succeeds (rarely outside of a proper, non PUG team), it's awesome, but I see people trying to do what you're doing, and usually it goes one-way-the Borg win.

It's right up there with the guy who says he can spawn both Cubes in Infected and clear both sides simultaneously and drop the gate before the Tac cube spawns-maaaaybee he's that good, but most players are NOT, and when you're pugging, you're dealing with MOST PLAYERS.

Cure Elite does not run like Cure Normal. In "Normal" difficulty, RML is the way to go-nothing is that dangerous and even the cubes are nerfed. (hell, Hive "Normal" can be run through in about ten minutes).

I pug daily, sometimes multiple times, on multiple toons-and it's CSE that is "my game" on all of them, and it is VERY common to see the mission fail because someone thinks they can scattervolley their way to the Optional quick in ELITE.

Here is what USUALLY happens with your 'tactics'...

You scatter/aoe the stack, ignoring the spawns, ignoring what's going on around you, and making it REAL difficult for anyone to assist-because they're going to get the aggro you're triggering while you're safely down-and-to-the-side in a parking orbit, this goes on until you have raptor-and-negh'var bearing down on you (along with other things, depending on the mood of the AI), or moving at expedient speed to the Kang, because everyone else is on the wrong side of the map. Now, the guy who's guarding the Kang MIGHT have the DPS to take care of the mess you've made, but most of the time, he doesn't, because most Puggies put the "healboat" cruiser doing that job, counting on the guys at the stacks to suppress spawns before they become a major problem.

Now, here's the other thing: you're spray-and-pray never concentrates damage, so you're not knocking out spheres faster, you're just knocking them out first-row-second-row-wake-the-cube-and trigger the Negh.

Dig it? meanwhile good concentrated damage can splash down the probes 1-2-3/1/neghvar/2/Raptor/3 in the same amount of time-and likely suppress the Bops in similar order...in LESS TIME.

Reason? dead things don't heal or recover, and the guy doing concentrated damage isn't missing NEARLY as often as your scatter-shot-spray-and-pray does.

Further, the guy doing concentrated damage doesn't wake up the cube, means his buddy can actually back him up, cover approaches, and keep spawns that DO get past him off the Kang AND off his back.

Which means also that neither one of them has to gear NEARLY as expensively as you do to do the same job-inadequately.

Jem set on a free ship using concentrated damage and systematic approach? will kill and CLEAR probes just as fast, or faster than, your fifty dollar special with MACO everything and MkXII weapons and consoles, special "invulnerable shield" and hangar pets.

I see a lot of guys fail the mission in CSE with their Oddys and Vestas because they think they can kirk their way to the optional.

otoh, I've BEEN IN teams where the best gear anyone had was the Breen set-on free ships, and gotten the Optional with time to spare doing it systematically-and this was PUG, not premade or private.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

Last edited by patrickngo; 01-15-2013 at 12:08 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 74
01-15-2013, 03:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
alright, Kirk, here's the deal: your method usually leads to mission-failure, when it succeeds (rarely outside of a proper, non PUG team), it's awesome, but I see people trying to do what you're doing, and usually it goes one-way-the Borg win.
so because others are idiots, I cant make this work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
It's right up there with the guy who says he can spawn both Cubes in Infected and clear both sides simultaneously and drop the gate before the Tac cube spawns-maaaaybee he's that good, but most players are NOT, and when you're pugging, you're dealing with MOST PLAYERS.

Cure Elite does not run like Cure Normal. In "Normal" difficulty, RML is the way to go-nothing is that dangerous and even the cubes are nerfed. (hell, Hive "Normal" can be run through in about ten minutes).

I pug daily, sometimes multiple times, on multiple toons-and it's CSE that is "my game" on all of them, and it is VERY common to see the mission fail because someone thinks they can scattervolley their way to the Optional quick in ELITE.
again, just because people cannot use SCV does not mean its not effective. the majority of high dps players use SCV in STFs just because of its utility. what I am saying is, do not say its "idiocy" to use AoE just because you have not seen it effectively used in other situations than kang guard duty (which is a dps sink, even with rml)

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
You scatter/aoe the stack, ignoring the spawns, ignoring what's going on around you, and making it REAL difficult for anyone to assist-because they're going to get the aggro you're triggering while you're safely down-and-to-the-side in a parking orbit, this goes on until you have raptor-and-negh'var bearing down on you (along with other things, depending on the mood of the AI), or moving at expedient speed to the Kang, because everyone else is on the wrong side of the map. Now, the guy who's guarding the Kang MIGHT have the DPS to take care of the mess you've made, but most of the time, he doesn't, because most Puggies put the "healboat" cruiser doing that job, counting on the guys at the stacks to suppress spawns before they become a major problem.
I dont see how is it difficult for others to defend the kang, while I am doing another job (assuming I ignore spawns) probably faster then they would. also I do get aggro, because I am not sittingg 9,999999999km away from my targets, but sitting next to them, and with 6 threat control only real high dps ships, or threat ships would take aggro from anything I hit.
also with the spawning neghvars I easily catch the spawning raptors and whatever spawns into one grav well, so I not only keep them at bay, but defend the kang while moving the mission forward, so there is no mess made again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Now, here's the other thing: you're spray-and-pray never concentrates damage, so you're not knocking out spheres faster, you're just knocking them out first-row-second-row-wake-the-cube-and trigger the Negh.

Dig it? meanwhile good concentrated damage can splash down the probes 1-2-3/1/neghvar/2/Raptor/3 in the same amount of time-and likely suppress the Bops in similar order...in LESS TIME.
CSV gives half the dmg bonus that RF gives. but you can use it on three targets at once. that means higher dps, so a group of spheres will die faster, especially in a grav well

also I am always hitting two (or even three) probes in first row, and then move up to second row, so there is not even an early neghvar spawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post

Further, the guy doing concentrated damage doesn't wake up the cube, means his buddy can actually back him up, cover approaches, and keep spawns that DO get past him off the Kang AND off his back.

Which means also that neither one of them has to gear NEARLY as expensively as you do to do the same job-inadequately.
cube can wake up without aggro, just if you go close enough. this way IF I wake up the cube, atleast it will shoot me, and not others, because I know I can tank it. again how is that bad to the others? if I concentrate fire, and the cube is aggrod, but not by me, and I cant take aggro without braking concentrated fire I would lose dps

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post

I see a lot of guys fail the mission in CSE with their Oddys and Vestas because they think they can kirk their way to the optional.

otoh, I've BEEN IN teams where the best gear anyone had was the Breen set-on free ships, and gotten the Optional with time to spare doing it systematically-and this was PUG, not premade or private.
baddies will be bad
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 158
# 75
01-15-2013, 04:30 AM
Nothing kills a group of enemies faster than the combination of GW/CSV/TS. And you need those especially in CSE - more often than not, I find myself in the position of carrying the team. Without an AoE skills, I'm lost - a testament of it is that I frequently was in need of CSV when it was on cool down (I had CRF, but it didn't do the job). I hope you are aware that the problem is not in the AoE attack skills, but in the device between the LCD monitor and the chair. I can say for myself that I can use fairly well CSV and TS, and that won't change even if you go rampage against them and label them useless.

Quote:
baddies will be bad
Question: What does "solo-Kang-Guard duty" means?

Last edited by satanailofhwbg; 01-15-2013 at 04:32 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,041
# 76
01-15-2013, 05:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by satanailofhwbg View Post
Question: What does "solo-Kang-Guard duty" means?
probably defending kang on all sides
Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 273
# 77
01-15-2013, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
...RML only works with a good team specced the right way, who've got excellent communication between team members running the right builds, skills, and powers to pull it off.
It works, because you "Narrow" your front-less transit time to intercept the spawns and a better chance to use team-healing and focus-fire.
Always run RML if I'm with at least 2 fleetmate, but I think your overstating the need for a correctly specced team. We have 3 guys attack Right, while the other 2 defend close to the other cubes. These defenders take out the spawn and the bottom probes. The defender will either have a Crowd Control like GW, or (insanely ) high DPS. But we've had a range of ship classes defending (but never an Oddy ). Sometimes I think Left is easier to defend, as you have a longer run-in to the Kang, and the spawn starts off "lower to the ground", so you're not as close to the Cube. You're just on your own for longer and dealing with Raptors rather than BoPs. So we've even had Cruisers with warp plasma defending on the left.

As for communication I can only think of 2 times when it matters. 1st is when the 1st cube goes down. If the guy who's defending Left has his crowd control on cool-down he may call for help. The 2nd is when you kill a cube's 1st top tier probe. I know I want everyone outside the arc of the warhships isometric charge when he spawns. I've been taken out because someone else was in his way

When we do have a well specced group, we burn through CSE with +7 mins left on the clock. But we've also had over 5 mins left when we've pugged 2 spots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satanailofhwbg View Post
Nothing kills a group of enemies faster than the combination of GW/CSV/TS
Agree. And with the Cure's 3 ship spawn even if it takes you longer to kill the 1st one, they all die as a group. The advantage being they will all respawn as a group. If you kill them singly they will respawn singly.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 165
# 78
01-15-2013, 01:42 PM
@patrickngo

I was using my Fire at Will + Torpedo Spread Odyssey with a lot of success in CSE. AOE is fine, even in CSE because it does not matter what you hit, what matters is, what you kill.

You can position myself in a way that my AOE attacks will not destroy the second probe in the row before I am ready to engage the Negh'var spawn.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,298
# 79
01-15-2013, 02:12 PM
RML only works if the ships are decent and the people are competent.

That usually isn't the case in PUGs.

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
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