Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 11
01-15-2013, 05:46 PM
I believe a better question is (and i'm paraphrasing the OP);

Dear Bran, et al.

What (if any) intention does Cryptic have, on the possibility of improving the existing "Combat Log" functionality? Such improvements include the ability to filter the log in terms of damage type, incoming healing/damage, outgoing healing/damage, and above all make the Combat Log a bit more understandable.

If nothing else, i'd love it if the Combat Log stops "spitting out" information after I have died, so I can read what killed me without having to scroll through the log several dozen lines (if I reach to at all, before the text disappears in the spam)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 155
# 12
01-15-2013, 07:22 PM
In short, using the ACT after the fact is fine, using it while in combat isn't. Trying to scroll through the combat chat in game is silly, why would you do that when the ACT exists?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 52
# 13
01-15-2013, 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
So if it's done in exactly the same manner as as parser, but in real time, it's not allowed?

What if it's something that simply provides a data point that could be argued should be part of the game's UI?

Why wouldn't Cryptic approve and encourage these things? If resources are stretched, what is there to lose from creating a collection of user generated resources which have been vetted by the devs as tools which do not negatively impact performance, the game code, etc?
Whether or not someone believes it should be part of the UI is irrelevant, it's not...


And if resources are stretched do you honestly think the devs will have time to trawl through 3rd party code testing it for compatibility with their own proprietary code?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,939
# 14
01-16-2013, 12:53 AM
Being that it is infact a 3rd party program I highly doubt Cryptic will ever endorse such a thing as it is a PR and potentially Legal minefield. Simply put a bad idea.

That said my interpretation of the issue would be that there is nothing wrong with it provided it does not directly interact with the STO interface.

Think of it like using a browser to look up information while in-game. That is allowed as there is no direct interaction between the two programs or their code. Similarly a log parser that acted in real time in a window separate from the STO program say on another monitor perhaps would also be unlikely to be a problem. However if said program did directly interact say by creating a new UI window in the game client and it's code that would be a problem.

Granted that it just my opinion.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,598
# 15
01-16-2013, 04:56 AM
It seemed pretty clear what he was saying.

Any 3rd party program/app that interacts with STO in realtime...bad. Something reading from the combatlog in realtime is interacting with STO in realtime...thus bad.

Something that reads a static combatlog - not in realtime - is not the same...thus "not bad" in that sense...
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 424
# 16
01-16-2013, 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
It seemed pretty clear what he was saying.

Any 3rd party program/app that interacts with STO in realtime...bad. Something reading from the combatlog in realtime is interacting with STO in realtime...thus bad.

Something that reads a static combatlog - not in realtime - is not the same...thus "not bad" in that sense...
My take on it is simply that he didn't realize that that the built in combatlog text file was written real time, and was assuming that if the program was real-time, it was probably real-time by means of memory scanning or injection into the STO Client executable, which is a problem.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 17
01-16-2013, 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antovaras View Post
Whether or not someone believes it should be part of the UI is irrelevant, it's not...


And if resources are stretched do you honestly think the devs will have time to trawl through 3rd party code testing it for compatibility with their own proprietary code?
It's actually pretty relevant because those are the things that will be created. And no, they won't be testing it in that manner because anything that actually interacts with the code is not allowed.

Members of this community have proven themselves to be adept at coding. Consider:

1. Hypothetical Feature A is on the developer's list, prioritized at number 1493/7400 in the list of things to do.

2. Hypothetical community member @codewarrior69 comes up with a user generated program to do Hypothetical Feature A. This program does not violate the ToS or EULA. This imaginary program does not interact with the game code itself but operates external to STO, not even requiring an interaction with the game client.

3. Devs check it out, confirm that it does not, in fact, violate ToS or EULA or actually interact with STO.

4. Devs can now re-prioritize Feature A because if somebody really wants it they can use external program. It stays on the list but drops to 2681/7400, right above PvP maps and Klingon content.

5. Devs create a process by which things get evaluated. Nothing ever gets better than a "use at your own risk" rating, but things also get a "no you can't do that and we'll ban you if we catch you" rating.

What takes more time, developing something or vetting something brought to you by a community member?

Check out renimalt's post. They can point at the ToS all day but it doesn't address the specific situation. They've provided a combat log function, it can provide data in real time to a file outside of STO which can be acted upon seemingly without violating the ToS.

So somehow when you do it makes it unacceptable? Even though it interacts with neither the game code nor the client?

UGC (and I ain't talking Foundry) happens. Don't take a draconian CYA across the board policy. Be progressive, work with the talented community members that STO has drawn to it in an open manner. Critically examine each community authored offering on its own merit.

Last edited by redricky; 01-16-2013 at 07:11 AM. Reason: spellig
Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 18
01-16-2013, 07:58 AM
A friendly reminder that 3rd party programs may not be posted on these forums without the direct consent of Perfect World Entertainment, and doing so without said consent violates the ToS of these forums which could result in warnings or infractions, up to, and including, a permanent ban. Thanks for your cooperation

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 19
01-16-2013, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
A friendly reminder that 3rd party programs may not be posted on these forums without the direct consent of Perfect World Entertainment, and doing so without said consent violates the ToS of these forums which could result in warnings or infractions, up to, and including, a permanent ban. Thanks for your cooperation

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
So Bran, can we talk about a way to get consent of PWE? UGC is clearly supported in game, how do we create a place where community members can bring a tool to the developers in broad daylight?
Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 20
01-16-2013, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redricky View Post
So Bran, can we talk about a way to get consent of PWE? UGC is clearly supported in game, how do we create a place where community members can bring a tool to the developers in broad daylight?
You'd have to reach out to our GM team at support.perfectworld.com

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:50 AM.