Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 31
01-16-2013, 07:56 AM
With Tric mines, the effect is pretty obvious not to mention common. The impact of these might be harder to determine, especially in a target rich (spammy) environment where it's tough to figure out what is even hitting you. They have this ridiculous notion that rarity is balance but that's nonsense. If these were more readily available, and they may become more common now the more people talk, it should become easier to expose the issues and rally support.

The numbers I see here have helped me understand them better. That being said this is only one of a hundred or more things that I don't particularly care for.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,422
# 32
01-16-2013, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehale View Post
With Tric mines, the effect is pretty obvious not to mention common. The impact of these might be harder to determine, especially in a target rich (spammy) environment where it's tough to figure out what is even hitting you. They have this ridiculous notion that rarity is balance but that's nonsense. If these were more readily available, and they may become more common now the more people talk, it should become easier to expose the issues and rally support.

The numbers I see here have helped me understand them better. That being said this is only one of a hundred or more things that I don't particularly care for.
Hell why doesn't everyone just pop APO3, get the hell out of there and by the time you even be hit again, your shields will be back.

Oh wait.

NVM!
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 33
01-16-2013, 01:04 PM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek

Last edited by bluegeek; 01-18-2013 at 12:27 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 34
01-16-2013, 04:54 PM
I kinda wish I had these for my Vesta. I'm already running 5 Flow Caps w/ spec and the Jem Def. Wonder if I could get 10k shield strip per mine out of 'em?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 35
# 35
01-18-2013, 12:13 AM
Counters that i know of for tach mines there are probably more.TBR PSW FAW CSV TS point defense fighters EWP the vesta bubble thing mines of your own. So is it broken or game breaking with that many counters. How about the easiest counter dont fly full speed right into the mines. So is the dammage to shields slightly op yes are they annoying yes should the dammage be slightly reduced or affected by resists yes but game breaking or broken no not with that many counters. Ohh by the way extends counters shockwave trics target shields and tbr wich tbr has multiple things to that can make it useless against extends and trics are broken so you cant use those. So i know everyone says extends easily countered it looks to me like tach mines are even easier.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,330
# 36
01-18-2013, 12:43 AM
Something having a counter does not mean it is not broken. It just means it has a counter. Now if it's a case that you believe something has too many counters and is underpowered, well then that's a separate case to present to the devs - not an argument against something being broken if it's actually broken.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,213
# 37
01-18-2013, 12:58 AM
Hm. From this discussion I get the impression that the mines would not be seen as broken if an escort could, without modification to the cookie-cutter build, withstand them.

I am not sure that that's would be a very useful "is it broken" test.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 693
# 38
01-18-2013, 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
I am not sure that that's would be a very useful "is it broken" test.
I think a somewhat useful "X is problematic" test is the following:

Assuming two teams with equally skilled players, is it reasonably possible to win against a team using X without using X yourself?


Now obviously one has to be careful with this criterion. It is not sensible to apply it to core game mechanics ("Engines are problematic, because you can't beat a team with engines without equipping engines yourself!", same for "damage" and "healing" or core abilities like SNB and EPtS), but I think it is useful when applied to individual items or skills that are newly being introduced - see full team SNB doffs, New FAW, the old Glider, the old SS, the (original) Elite Shields, the old T4 rep heal.

Does this apply to TachMines? I have no idea, I don't have these mines myself.
Can one beat a team that is using TachMines in an organised fashion without using TachMines oneself? Or are the necessary counters limiting the team so much in its attack potential that it is impossible to win?
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 39
01-18-2013, 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
I think a somewhat useful "X is problematic" test is the following:

Assuming two teams with equally skilled players, is it reasonably possible to win against a team using X without using X yourself?


Now obviously one has to be careful with this criterion. It is not sensible to apply it to core game mechanics ("Engines are problematic, because you can't beat a team with engines without equipping engines yourself!", same for "damage" and "healing" or core abilities like SNB and EPtS), but I think it is useful when applied to individual items or skills that are newly being introduced - see full team SNB doffs, New FAW, the old Glider, the old SS, the (original) Elite Shields, the old T4 rep heal.

Does this apply to TachMines? I have no idea, I don't have these mines myself.
Can one beat a team that is using TachMines in an organised fashion without using TachMines oneself? Or are the necessary counters limiting the team so much in its attack potential that it is impossible to win?
is it possible to jump to our ts for a talk and show you how bad these mines are against 3 players verse 1 player with them?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,422
# 40
01-18-2013, 09:19 AM
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.

Last edited by bluegeek; 01-18-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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