Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,977
# 101
01-15-2013, 09:21 PM
All reference on screen of Cestus III after TOS is it has a Base Ball team, it was recolonized, Kasidy Yates's brother lives there, and it's 8 weeks from DS9...There is no screen evidence from any series stating how friendly the Federation and the Hegemony might have become.



Last edited by neoakiraii; 01-15-2013 at 09:23 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 102
01-15-2013, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
Not the same, not what's being discussed, thank you for playing.


Well, I guess it just sucks for me that you are in charge. Oh, wait, you're not...


That's nice. Off-topic and irrelevant, but glad you are having fun.
It's a Lizard Race which IS what is being discussed... whether or not it fits your definition.

and BTW, take it from an Old Troll... you don't do it very well.

Brushing off others remarks with no personal flair, just creates a situation where folks ignore you....

Come to think of it... <click>
...... DaveyNY ...STO Forum Member since February - 2009
..............Star Trek Fan since Thursday Sept. 8th, 1966
There are No Longer any STO Veterans... We're Just People who have Played the Game for the last 4 years.
I Really Do Miss the little TOP Button at the bottom of the threads.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 520
# 103
01-15-2013, 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyny View Post
It's a Lizard Race which IS what is being discussed... whether or not it fits your definition.

and BTW, take it from an Old Troll... you don't do it very well.

Brushing off others remarks with no personal flair, just creates a situation where folks ignore you....

Come to think of it... <click>
And here we go again. It was NOT what was being discussed--not by me anyway and since I am the OP I think I know what the topic was. I am a bad troll in this case certainly in that I wasn't trolling--I was dismissing.

As to folks ignoring me:

a) The topic seems to be generating some interest which is my only goal here. I am also encouraged by the pitifully ham-handed distractions and sad attempts at character assassination that so many of those opposing the idea have resorted to right off the bat.

b) I would dearly love it if a few persons here did a better job of ignoring me.

c) Do you think you might be interested in joining the ranks of those who ignore me? I know that I would enjoy it immensely.

As to my attitude: Now, this is just an off-the-cuff hypothesis I would like to make that clear, but perhaps my being so flippant with you and roach might, in some way, correlate with the fact that you seem far more interested in getting a rise out of me then discussing Gorn as a playable Federation race.

One other point; showing all three responses, while specifically cutting around the statements they were made in response to, is at best sloppy and at worst cowardly. You are using the same tactic roach was: sow discord to derail a conversation you don't want to see take place.

Last edited by ajstoner; 01-16-2013 at 12:11 AM. Reason: Spite & ennui
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 520
# 104
01-16-2013, 12:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoakiraii View Post
All reference on screen of Cestus III after TOS is it has a Base Ball team, it was recolonized, Kasidy Yates's brother lives there, and it's 8 weeks from DS9...There is no screen evidence from any series stating how friendly the Federation and the Hegemony might have become.
An indirect but perfectly reasonable inference. Remember, we are dealing with a TV show and not historical documentation. The end point is that the arrangement in question (Gorn serving in Starfleet and not exclusively with the KDF) can be justified along many fronts, including show-established cannon which has been a major crux of the arguments being made against it, excluding the myriad "fed fanboys suck" entries of course.

Last edited by ajstoner; 01-16-2013 at 12:21 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 105
01-16-2013, 01:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
An indirect but perfectly reasonable inference. Remember, we are dealing with a TV show and not historical documentation. The end point is that the arrangement in question (Gorn serving in Starfleet and not exclusively with the KDF) can be justified along many fronts, including show-established cannon which has been a major crux of the arguments being made against it, excluding the myriad "fed fanboys suck" entries of course.
So now you're using things that weren't shown on-screen as justification? How do we know relations between the Federation and Gorn Hegemony didn't collapse, leading to war (or at least, complete distrust between the 2 sides)? There is EXACTLY the same amount of evidence of that as there is of their being peace treaties leading towards the Gorn joining the Federation.

Also, you say many of the KDF players in this thread have a "fed fanboys suck" attitude, while at the same time you're throwing every disparaging comment you can think of at fans of the KDF. Does irony mean anything to you? Or have you already forgotten your comments like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
I hate the KDF ships, the faction's background and attitudes, and most of all I don't care for most of the folk playing on the KDF side for reasons which should be made clear by a quick perusal of their posts in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
I would like to respond to your post: Can i see it in English? Honesty, I have no idea what you are trying to say.
And then of course, there's you saying this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
The KDF needs more players to get more attention; not my fault.
at the same time as saying you don't want a KDF character, but you want the KDF content.

How is it not your fault, you're calling for more unique content to be shared. Suppose the Feds did get their Gorn, and there are players who really want to play as one but are undecided about whether to get their first KDF character, or a second Fed character. EVERY player that stayed Fed instead of going KDF would be (at least partly) your fault.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,977
# 106
01-16-2013, 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
An indirect but perfectly reasonable inference. Remember, we are dealing with a TV show and not historical documentation. The end point is that the arrangement in question (Gorn serving in Starfleet and not exclusively with the KDF) can be justified along many fronts, including show-established cannon which has been a major crux of the arguments being made against it, excluding the myriad "fed fanboys suck" entries of course.
No we are not dealing with a TV show we are dealing with Star Trek, and when it comes to canon (cannon is something you put on your escort, you can thank me later) it's the holy words of Trek. As much as i hate canon, and always love story over canon in Trek,if you're going to use canon at least use it right, and there is no assuming this happen in Star Trek when it comes to fans.

If it was not "on screen" it did not happen.


Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,753
# 107
01-16-2013, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
The KDF is ultra-expansionist and has stripped the Gorn of ALL their territory. I know which side I would be more inclined to serve with were I a Gorn.
Except the Gorn where not stripped of anything by the KDF after the Undine infiltrators of thier society where killed. In fact they where given free riegn to govern themselves as they see fit as long as they give loyalty to the KDF and on top of that they have a prescence on the Klingon high council.

So how are they the "slaves" you keep insisting they are?
Roy Hatch (stryker) soldier, friend, and good man.
1945-2014
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 520
# 108
01-16-2013, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
So now you're using things that weren't shown on-screen as justification? How do we know relations between the Federation and Gorn Hegemony didn't collapse, leading to war (or at least, complete distrust between the 2 sides)? There is EXACTLY the same amount of evidence of that as there is of their being peace treaties leading towards the Gorn joining the Federation.
That could very well have happened as well. As I stated above, it is simply an "in" that exists. This is a TV show, not a historical event to which we have an obligation to establish as fact before publishing a peer-reviewed scientific paper. Such evidence doesn?t exist. It never did because those who were making the story up out of whole cloth never bothered to invent the spicifics of that "truth." This entire line of argument is insane in the context of a fiction story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
Also, you say many of the KDF players in this thread have a "fed fanboys suck" attitude, while at the same time you're throwing every disparaging comment you can think of at fans of the KDF. Does irony mean anything to you? Or have you already forgotten your comments like this:
Yes, this is me being snarky with someone who insisted on behaving like a jackass over and over and over in this discussion. I have, however, offered actual arguments along the way to support my point which he did not. You are playing a game of false equivalencies and, it is worth noting,dodging the entire point of the thread to do it. You, for example, have made the above entry that goes after me, not the idea in any terms at all, lucid or otherwise.

As to "throwing every disparaging comment you can think of at fans of the KDF." Not even close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
at the same time as saying you don't want a KDF character, but you want the KDF content.
I have a KDF character. I don't not want KDF content, I want a certain race to be playable for the other faction for which it makes at least as much sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
How is it not your fault, you're calling for more unique content to be shared. Suppose the Feds did get their Gorn, and there are players who really want to play as one but are undecided about whether to get their first KDF character, or a second Fed character. EVERY player that stayed Fed instead of going KDF would be (at least partly) your fault.
Damn, was it MY job to recruit for the KDF? Why am I only hearing about this now? The KDF will get more players once there is ACTUAL content for them, which as I have stated over and over again, I fully agree they should get. If you think your current survival hangs on the Gorn being KDF only well?that?s absurd. You are not making any points at all on this subject, you are simply attacking me.

The fact that almost everyone on the KDF side who has commented here has gone directly to ad homonym attacks against me personally without even attempting to elucidate an actual point at all is very telling. You are attempting to derail a conversation, not participate in one. THAT is why I am getting short-tempered with posts like this. You don't like me and wish me ill, I get it--and don't care. Back to the topic please.

Last edited by ajstoner; 01-16-2013 at 11:16 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 520
# 109
01-16-2013, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Except the Gorn where not stripped of anything by the KDF after the Undine infiltrators of thier society where killed. In fact they where given free riegn to govern themselves as they see fit as long as they give loyalty to the KDF and on top of that they have a prescence on the Klingon high council.

So how are they the "slaves" you keep insisting they are?
An actual point; thank you, Roach. While normally I loathe answering one question with another in this case I feel I need to:

Have you ever been part of an occupation force?

I have--people HATE that. The Gorn have been established as a folk who especially hate it, just look at how they reacted when someone parked a colony on some outlying rock they weren't even using.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 14
# 110
01-16-2013, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
An actual point; thank you, Roach. While normally I loathe answering one question with another in this case I feel I need to:

Have you ever been part of an occupation force?

I have--people HATE that. The Gorn have been established as a folk who especially hate it, just look at how they reacted when someone parked a colony on some outlying rock they weren't even using.
An occupation force that allowed for FULL sovereignty of the nation, representation in the Klingon government and millitary, as well as civilian status and full protectorate benefits?

When has Bin Laden and Saddam served on the US senate with Taliban forces walking the streets of D.C. and serving in the Marine Corps?

to avoid needless hyperbole, the Gorn are probably the #2 thing that make the Klingon faction unique and awesome, there's no need for Fed players to leech everything away just because of a fear of trying something new.
----------------------
Drink one shot for ever time someone complains about realism in Star Trek.
Drink two shots if they don't know what "fiction" is.


Last edited by balinikus; 01-16-2013 at 01:24 PM. Reason: Details!
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