Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 270
# 11
01-16-2013, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
No, they should remain as is. If you want to do more damage, then time them properly on an open shield facing. Yeah I know it's hard, but that's why you have people on your team to help you with maximizing your opportunities to hit that open facing.
The original post assumes the torpedoes are already timed properly. The point is to address the heavy skill point investment it takes to use them.
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Last edited by bobtheyak; 01-16-2013 at 01:59 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 12
01-16-2013, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guriphu View Post
Perhaps torpedoes could be configured to ignore up to 1000 hit points worth of shields before hitting the hull, so that their role as weapons that you time against a downed shield facing would be retained, but they wouldn't be completely invalidated by redistributing shields.
Agreed. It has never sat well with me that a tiny sliver of remaining shield strength can still almost completely nullify torpedo damage.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,671
# 13
01-16-2013, 02:07 PM
torpedoes need to only do -25% damage to shields, not -75%. they wouldn't ONLY have use on tac escorts/bops attempting an alpha stirke insta kill. cause thats basically the only useful situation you can use them in, in game. in trek they spit them out like they were going out of style at anything, shields or not. its a poor game mechanic that serves no purpose and makes them useful in only a single build style. not counting tranny and plasma bleed and dot builds.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 14
01-16-2013, 02:41 PM
I think torps could use a look. There've been nice things that've happened to them over the last year. Projectile DOff's, buffed shield pen on Transphasics, Chroniton movement debuff can actually be resisted by AP:O... but this has had some pretty ugly effects, too.

Photon torpedos have become, essentially, *even* worse Quantums. They never realistically fire faster than you'd be able to get the many times more powerful Quantums to, and for spiking are, naturally, second-rate and thoroughly unappealing. It's also painfully slow under the effects of high-yield. Honestly? There's no niche it fills not filled by some other torpedo.

Transphasic torps are mostly in a good place, though having their shield pen nerfed when used with torp powers is kind of a drag. A whole-hog buffed Breen Cluster Torpedo can do utterly devastating damage. As an amusing anecdote, when helping Renimelt test a piece of software I critted his BFI+125 Aux Aux2SIF 3 resistance capped Oddy and took 2/3rd's of his hull clean through his shields.

Chronitons put the brakes on people. They're awesome when spec'ing Graviton Generators without ever really needing to spec torps, and as another plus, it's easier than [mom joke] to get bonuses to Graviton Generators.

Plasma Torps... oh goodness plasma torps. You connect 'em with bare hull and they hurt. You connect 'em with shields... and they hurt. You can buff their burns without ever spec'ing into torps (AFAIK, the burns are buffed by the Energy Weapons skill).

Quantum torps are, basically, still quantum torps. They hit, they crit, you die if they touch hull at an inopportune moment.

Tricobalt Torps picked up a nifty trick when used with the Nadeon Detonator console, but are otherwise the same old gambler's weapon. Somewhat difficult to connect with amazing pay off, and a nice bit of built-in crowd control.

To be honest, I don't think torpedos in general need much buffs outside the maligned Photon Torpedo, in terms of raw performance. The usability of launchers, though, need to be made more compatible with Fed Snoozers (< turn than Excelsior) if the game's design goals want us mounting fore and aft torps for more than canon flavoring. Unless we're all supposed to be flying mine layers.

Last edited by thegrimcorsair; 01-16-2013 at 02:49 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,732
# 15
01-16-2013, 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtheyak View Post
The original post assumes the torpedoes are already timed properly. The point is to address the heavy skill point investment it takes to use them.
What heavy skill point investment? All of my characters are specced into projectiles and don't suffer in their other skills, even my Eng Healers have it on the off chance I choose to slot one.

Only my Escort Cannon/Torp ships spec into the "torp specialization" skill, and it doesn't gimp them either. I even have Raider builds that cover all bases.

Anyhow, I don't see an need to buff them at all. They work fine for me in my intended application.

If they get buffed, so be it. I like them being hard to use, it makes it more satisfying when you do land them.


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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,732
# 16
01-16-2013, 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
To be honest, I don't think torpedos in general need much buffs outside the maligned Photon Torpedo, in terms of raw performance.
Now that's something I do agree with. Almost no one uses Photons, because Quantums are just so much better.

Meh, I'd be happy if they were all functionally the same with just different visuals, effects, and sounds.


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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 515
# 17
01-16-2013, 03:17 PM
They need to change the way they work with shields. I am tired of a shield facing having like 100 shield HP and the torp behaves the same as if the facing was at full strength. If the torp does 3K damage and the shield facing it strikes has 240HP, thats 2760 extra damage that should fall over to the hull. I would be happy with %50 to %1000 of the left over damage hitting the hull. Maybe not all of it, but something should be said for weakened shields vs torps.

If the facing is stronger than the torp, the current mechanic of a percentage of bleed through is ok. I think the shield damage from a torp hit should be a bit higher. No one should just sit there with full shields and take torp hit after torp and barely have to heal shields for them while topping off the hull from the bleed through.

I would be cool with a buff... as long as crits do not get out of control.
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Last edited by phantomeight; 01-16-2013 at 03:21 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 18
01-16-2013, 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtheyak View Post
The original post assumes the torpedoes are already timed properly. The point is to address the heavy skill point investment it takes to use them.


I only put 4pts in torpedoes. Is this why I'm awful? Or am I awful for other reasons?

I need to know. This way when I meet someone, I can just be strainght up honest.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 19
01-16-2013, 04:36 PM
Torpedoes are fine if you put them on a ship with tremendous forward firepower, and time them to hit when shields are down.

They suck on a cruiser though. The problem on slow ships is that you need broadsides to have any chance of weakening shields, but torpedoes don't fire to the side.

In canon, cruisers are shown firing torpedoes that curve to hit targets to the side, so I think it might be a help if the weaker torpedoes (photons in particular) were given much wider firing arcs. It probably wouldn't be the end of the world if photons had a 270? arc to match beam arrays.

Photons aren't really the type of torpedo that is timed anyway -- they are best used when fired as quickly as possible due to their short cooldown. With a broader arc, healer-types could still contribute a little to DPS just because they would be very likely to have torpedoes in flight most of the time.

Ideally, photons shouldn't require much thought or timing to use. "Fire photon torpedoes" is never ever the wrong answer in canon combat, so it should work about the same in the game -- sure, they might not do full damage against shields, but they ought to slip in and hit bare hull occasionally just by virtue of being fired so often.

I'd be less sure about changes to other torpedo types. I could see quantums having a slightly wider firing arc, without being as wide as photons. Those are both torpedoes that are shown being used effectively on slow ships, and both are shown being fired pretty much as frequently as they can be loaded.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 803
# 20
01-16-2013, 05:03 PM
Hrmm,

maybe it is time to rethink the weapons firing arcs. Why should all weapons have the same firing arcs no matter on what ship they are installed one?

what would happen if escorts have lower arcs, cruisers the largest and sci in the middle?

Lets say a photon torp on a escort has 60, on a sci 120 and on a cruisers 180 degrees?
Same for al other weapons and get rid of those for/aft slot nonsense, when i want to stick a dual beam bank aft, why shouldn't it be able to on a cruisers?

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