Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 11
01-17-2013, 02:03 AM
that opvp tach mine guy is sob...!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,330
# 12
01-17-2013, 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
Oh yeah, you can just play for a few hours every day and just produce a bugship magically from the luminous ether.
Well, you can just buy it off the exchange... and I suspect there will be one on the Dominion Lockbox... and yes, you can earn Lockbox keys in the game just by playing.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 275
# 13
01-17-2013, 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Well, you can just buy it off the exchange... and I suspect there will be one on the Dominion Lockbox... and yes, you can earn Lockbox keys in the game just by playing.
Yea I got all my time crap plus those mines from buying keys with ec and got a few ships to buy more ect lol
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 374
# 14
01-17-2013, 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omgrandalthor View Post
This better not be the one in a p2w fleet defiant and said no p2w fight and brings that to a fight vs a advanced escort with tranphasic mines/breen torp and talks all kinds of nonsense. YES FLEET SHIPS ARE P2W moduals are z store so don't be hating on bugs there champ!
fleet ships are most definitely NOT P2W... I can grind up dilithium and convert that to zen enough so that I can add a fleet module every day with no expenditure of actual money... all it cost me was about 3 hours a day grinding my dilithium..... deal with it, it is not P2W = Pay to win, it is P2W = Play to Win
Major Xi'Zzin
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I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,666
# 15
01-17-2013, 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andoriansrus View Post
fleet ships are most definitely NOT P2W... I can grind up dilithium and convert that to zen enough so that I can add a fleet module every day with no expenditure of actual money... all it cost me was about 3 hours a day grinding my dilithium..... deal with it, it is not P2W = Pay to win, it is P2W = Play to Win
I've been avoiding this thread, because it's inevitably the type of thread that the mods hand out warnings like they're having a going out of business sale.

However, you're mistaken - technically.

Whether it's a case that you bought the FM off the exchange for EC or you bought it with Zen from converting Dil... real money transactions took place.

The item cannot exist in the game without somebody having spent real money.

They could have broken out their wallet and paid for the Zen to buy it.
They could have a lifetime sub they paid for and accumulated the Zen to buy it.
They could have paid for a sub and accumulated the Zen to buy it.
They could have bought it by converting Dil to Zen - the Zen being something that somebody bought or had available from a stipend (available from having paid).

Fleet Ships that require Fleet Modules are very much P2W. They can't exist in the game unless somebody made a real money transaction.

Fleet Ships that do not require Fleet Modules on the other hand...different story. They do not require anything that required a real money transaction being made.

Anything that has a Zen price attached to it - required a real money transaction. Just because you may not have made that transaction yourself, does not negate the fact that one had to take place.

Dil items present the opportunity for both - somebody could buy Zen to trade for Dil, thus one could say they personally partook in P2W...but that's another discussion and a personal choice. Anything with a Zen price, on the other hand, there was always a real money transaction involved at some point...


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 16
01-17-2013, 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I've been avoiding this thread, because it's inevitably the type of thread that the mods hand out warnings like they're having a going out of business sale.

However, you're mistaken - technically.

Whether it's a case that you bought the FM off the exchange for EC or you bought it with Zen from converting Dil... real money transactions took place.

The item cannot exist in the game without somebody having spent real money.

They could have broken out their wallet and paid for the Zen to buy it.
They could have a lifetime sub they paid for and accumulated the Zen to buy it.
They could have paid for a sub and accumulated the Zen to buy it.
They could have bought it by converting Dil to Zen - the Zen being something that somebody bought or had available from a stipend (available from having paid).

Fleet Ships that require Fleet Modules are very much P2W. They can't exist in the game unless somebody made a real money transaction.

Fleet Ships that do not require Fleet Modules on the other hand...different story. They do not require anything that required a real money transaction being made.

Anything that has a Zen price attached to it - required a real money transaction. Just because you may not have made that transaction yourself, does not negate the fact that one had to take place.

Dil items present the opportunity for both - somebody could buy Zen to trade for Dil, thus one could say they personally partook in P2W...but that's another discussion and a personal choice. Anything with a Zen price, on the other hand, there was always a real money transaction involved at some point...

I understand what you are getting at, but I think the conversation needs to move beyond "pay to win" and simply what is decently balanced, what is under-performing and what is clearly broken OP.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13,666
# 17
01-17-2013, 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
I understand what you are getting at, but I think the conversation needs to move beyond "pay to win" and simply what is decently balanced, what is under-performing and what is clearly broken OP.
That's definitely the better discussion, imho. The other thing is kind of moot - that's the game - they need to make revenue...it's a pointless discussion. P2W's basically become an alternate subscription system these days - it's not Pay2Win - it's Pay2Play w/o a sub. Just another form of P2P.

Balance on the other hand - definitely. UP, OP, Broken UP, Broken OP, and all the general not working as intended... while there can obviously be some arguments amongst players on this, you can generally tell the type of player arguing for/against something that seems out of whack. It allows for a more cohesive front from the playerbase in trying to get the devs to make an awesome game...


Fleet Admiral Geist, Klingon Science Officer
U.S.S. Arcadia, Benthan Assault Cruiser - U.S.S. Deogen, Phantom Intel Escort
U.S.S. Endless, Hazari Destroyer - U.S.S. Naked Sun, Hirogen Apex Battle Cruiser
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,354
# 18
01-17-2013, 09:06 AM
Personally now I have come back to STO, I have a different outlook on the whole debate. I think this term is now irrelevant. If you go into ques, its fair game. However,if you setup a pre arranged match with another party, agree the rules before the match starts, you won't end up arguing.

As an example, in the last few days pandas have gone into the ques knowing we'd face Orions. No matter the result and history between the fleets, we have just agreed to say gg now and move on. Overall both fleets have had a pleasant experience. Win win scenario either way.
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,745
# 19
01-17-2013, 10:13 AM
.Edit. /10char


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.

Last edited by snoge00f; 01-17-2013 at 10:45 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 20
01-17-2013, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
That may be, but the OP is another guy.

His most commonly posting OPvP char is...
Not to be a back-seat moderator, but you really shouldn't 'name and shame' (I think that's the term) here on the forums.

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