Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,661
# 11
01-18-2013, 02:36 PM
Bran said it (to his knowledge) wasn't a planned addition at this time. And it's not in the foundry right now. I'd REALLY love to have some new console props. the ones inside the Tholian ships are cool.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,825
# 12
01-18-2013, 03:00 PM
Quote:
There is no ETA, as I'm not sure if they will be added. Sorry if this was not more clear in my posts earlier in this thread Feel free to leave feedback about this in a separate thread in the Foundry Discussion forum.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
He posted this in the challenge discussion in response to our calls for these to be added.

Did you guys not go on Tribble? I saw immediately that there were no NPC contact version, though when I saw someone had posted about it (was it captain revo?) I decided not to. I suppose I probably should have said something. I guess I did say something in the Stabase UGC chatroom, not that any devs would see that of course.

Would have been nice to have more than a week to look at it.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 844
# 13
01-18-2013, 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
He posted this in the challenge discussion in response to our calls for these to be added.

Did you guys not go on Tribble? I saw immediately that there were no NPC contact version, though when I saw someone had posted about it (was it captain revo?) I decided not to. I suppose I probably should have said something. I guess I did say something in the Stabase UGC chatroom, not that any devs would see that of course.

Would have been nice to have more than a week to look at it.
It wouldn't have made any difference. I posted that the Mugatos didn't have combat animations when reskinned as humanoid NPCs and nothing was done about it.

We're always told people are listening, but the reality is that actions speak louder than words and they frankly don't back up that anyone is listening. We've had lists of small things that could be fixed to make the Foundry better (platforms not covering everything under them) and it's not like anything is ever done about them.


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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,661
# 14
01-18-2013, 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
It wouldn't have made any difference. I posted that the Mugatos didn't have combat animations when reskinned as humanoid NPCs and nothing was done about it.

We're always told people are listening, but the reality is that actions speak louder than words and they frankly don't back up that anyone is listening. We've had lists of small things that could be fixed to make the Foundry better (platforms not covering everything under them) and it's not like anything is ever done about them.
I have to disagree with the idea that NOTHING is done, just not as much as we'd like.
HAIL HYDRA!

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,045
# 15
01-18-2013, 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
I have to disagree with the idea that NOTHING is done, just not as much as we'd like.
Well the stuff that IS done comes out of left field. Or, when it's something we request, we get the very bare basics, like the ability to make a npc disappear with little functionality to the animations.

Welcome the Tholians. But we will complain enough, and the effort that went into to giving us the min.... well that person will be like, "screw you guys. It wasn't on my schedule. And now you complain about it."

Last edited by kirksplat; 01-18-2013 at 09:31 PM.
Career Officer
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# 16
01-19-2013, 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
I have to disagree with the idea that NOTHING is done, just not as much as we'd like.
After dealing with the Foundry for the last year and a half, I really don't feel that there is much positive to be said about how it has been handled. I will be the first to admit that there have been major improvements to the editor since it went live, which is great. But the way the development has been handled, with the lack of any sort of communication with us, and very little response to our complaints, is not really excusable, in my opinion. Who else are they developing the Foundry for, besides us, who actually use it? How do they even know what we want?

I'm a pretty reasonable person, but I can't put lipstick on a pig. Sometimes, as in this case, criticism is fair, and warranted. I think the Foundry is great, primarily because the Foundry community has managed to overcome a lot of its inherent flaws, not that we get any credit for it.

I give credit to Cryptic for developing the Foundry at all, but the way it's been treated in STO I feel deserves a C- at best. Maybe that goes for other aspects of the game, too, but since I only focus on the Foundry at this point, I don't really know. I don't hold the individual employees responsible, because I am sure they are doing the best they can, but the overall management attention to the Foundry has been quite lacking.

I will say that if it weren't for the Foundry, I would have moved on from STO a long time ago, so I guess from that standpoint I can't be that upset about it.


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Last edited by nagorak; 01-19-2013 at 01:09 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 17
01-19-2013, 08:21 AM
I honesty don't see why the can't say to themselves: "Hey, we have a Tholian foundry challenge. You over there, take an hour and add a Tholian contact."
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,661
# 18
01-19-2013, 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
I honesty don't see why the can't say to themselves: "Hey, we have a Tholian foundry challenge. You over there, take an hour and add a Tholian contact."
I agree.

Like Kirk and Nagorak, the foundry is one of my favorite parts of STO. I probably would have lost interest by now if not for that.
HAIL HYDRA!

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MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 547
# 19
01-19-2013, 02:15 PM
Okay, seriously, I don't think it's that bad.

For the topic of the thread:
You are telling me there is no way to make a compelling story with Tholians that doesn't involve a Tholian coming out and saying anything to you face to face? There is no conceivable way for you to tell a story or make a mission you think is worthy? I don't know, folks. The Tholians did a wonderful job for me as an entity despite the fact they didn't say much of anything. Whispers of Tholian silk and this group that never really dealt with the rest of the galaxy. They were mysterious and ominous with motives perhaps we couldn't comprehend. They do deal with time travel and multiple dimensions regularly. Oh and the fact they are crystalline entities which apparently use some complex silicon based intellectual hive mind lattus thing is also easy for us to relate to.

You know what, I'd think it would be fascinating to see some of these work arounds used effectively in a story. It becomes more than just an interaction and becomes an interesting plot point. Setting up a way to communicate, using old Morse code via a creature who can't communicate with you. An enemy who is behind a curtain; a mystery villain that doesn't have a face. Or is it even one villain? And again, all this kind of stuff is if you actually need that whole classic dialog communication to take place.

Personally, I like mystery. I also like challenging myself and my storytelling. You may think this is unreasonable, I don't. I think it is exactly what the title says it is, challenge.


Now for what is being said here about the Dev responses to our desires and needs and all that. I want to say that, yeah, it could be better at times. I'd love to finally get that blank UFP or Klingon Empire template for dialogs rather than using "consoles" and I would like a lot of fun features.

But, to those who this applies: you really thing your behavior is going to get you anywhere? Really? I get it, you are involved and enthused but do you think this will give a better response? You don't think this one way "oh the stuff you got us sucks and we don't want any of it" talk will provide you with better things? People complain about a lack of communication and everything and I just look at it like the Jacky Chan head hurt meme.

First off, you don't think they are listening? You don't like the feedback we've gotten from interviews and podcasts and machinima videos? And you haven't seen the stuff they've put down for Neverwinter? I mean, watch those videos, watch the presentation Cryptic did in Europe about developing systems for UGC like what we've got. Tell me that they are not listening to us. I dare you. Tell me they are being cruel and evil and just not uploading content like uniforms or solving the issue with custom liberated borg characters and caitains just because they like watching us squirm.

Did it ever occur you to you that when they make the comments about liking us being creative with limited resources it isn't an excuse but rather they don't want to see a lot of missions with Tholians popping up and explaining all this stuff and turning them from a silent villain with mystery as a cloak to just another cookie cutter mission? I thought we didn't like those types of missions? You don't think they know they already have a problem with the new grinder missions?


I'm not saying we shouldn't be critical, that we should be appeased by every little thing. Criticism makes things better, solves problems, so long as all parties are doing it correctly. But don't grind away the knife by using your sharpening stone wrong here. We've got a dev checking on our bugs now and letting us know they are, we know zero looms through here. It could be worse, it has been worse, we need to keep our heads level and have perspective.

But please, at least preface your concerns with some idea of thanks from time to time. Don't give them two kicks to the junk for every pat on the back. Stop threatening to bite the hand that feeds you. Cause it also feeds me.
Career Officer
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# 20
01-19-2013, 05:34 PM
I don't think they're intentionally not adding things, but when you take the time to test things on Tribble, find a problem, and then it goes live without being addressed, what does that tell you (and this has happened numerous times)? To me it says, don't waste your time testing on Tribble because we don't pay attention anyway. My time is valuable, too. Why should I bother testing on Tribble if problems I find don't even get addressed?

As far as not listening in general, I believe there is a pretty solid consensus among the Foundry community of several things that are problematic, most of which are probably not that difficult to fix. If someone simply asked what our top 10 issues were, I think that would go a long way to feeling like we're getting heard. Some of our feedback is listened to, but the lack of specific problems being addressed indicates that much is not.

The truth is we have no real idea if our complaints are registering at all, because we often get very little feedback. There are bugs posted in the Foundry Bugs forum for months with no official response. If someone even just said, "We made a note of the issue, and we'll get to it eventually," then that would change things a lot. Just hoping someone out there is actually reading the bugs is not that encouraging, especially because some bugs go unaddressed for many months, or even years, so it's hard to know whether it's simply not been gotten to yet, or if no one even knows about it.

Lately someone in QA has been responding to some issues, which is good. Knowing that something has been noted, means that we can rest assured that it will eventually be addressed, so we don't have to keep acting as the squeaky wheel.

So, I think lack of communication is actually a large part of the problem. We simply don't know what's going on a lot of the time. And we also don't understand exactly what the relationship is between the NW Foundry team and whoever is responsible for porting things over to STO. Knowing a little more about that would also probably help in regards to our expectations.


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Last edited by nagorak; 01-19-2013 at 06:22 PM.
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