Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 31
I know CBS doesn't like you guys pulling ships from video games so I don't actually know where you got the vanguard class, but I remember it from armada II as a flight deck cruiser.

Feds aching for one. How bout's a Vanguard class flight deck refit? The only real flight deck cruisers we have right now are the Orion ones on the KDF side and I don't think uglier ships exist.

As we come closer to normalizing the two faction's content you guys have clearly been pushing for sharing ship classifications across the board, starting with the Atrox.

On the edge of my prayers are a klingon design for a flight deck cruiser with a lt cmd tac slot, but thats pushing it considering the existence of the marauder, a flying turd it may be. ~.~
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 195
# 2
01-19-2013, 08:45 AM
Feds have tons of carriers. HEC, 3 different Vestas, Atrox, and Recluse. We really don't need a cruiser/carrier.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 31
# 3
01-19-2013, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcostik View Post
Feds have tons of carriers. HEC, 3 different Vestas, Atrox, and Recluse. We really don't need a cruiser/carrier.
And? Those aren't cruisers. The only thing similar between a flight deck cruiser like the marauder and any of those ships is the hangar bay. They don't play anywhere near the same.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 940
# 4
01-19-2013, 08:48 AM
And why do you want the same?

There is differences for a reason :p
Your Heavy Graviton Beam deals 26470 (10583) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Assimilated Carrier.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 195
# 5
01-19-2013, 08:52 AM
I know they aren't, but why do feds need more carriers? So far all you've done is compare our ships to Klinks. I haven't heard any real arguments. IMO, the Feds have plenty of carriers to choose from. AFAIK, they didn't show any real carriers in canon, so why should Cryptic add in cruiser/carrier refits?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 31
# 6
01-19-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elandarksky View Post
And why do you want the same?

There is differences for a reason :p

Sure, just like there's differences between the Atrox and the Vo'Quv; IE. the fighter selection and boff lineup, whereas the Atrox leans more to Engineers and the Vo'Quv is more tactical.

The KDF is honestly hurting for more of these subclasses of ships than the Federation is, but we're not even talking about a new ship class here; but the originally intended flight deck version of a ship that's already in game. Imagine how hard I facepalmed when I saw the Armitage refitting to the Akira's original purpose when the flight deck Vanguard was not a reality already.

Also, I'll tell you why I want the same; I don't want to grind two separate maxed toons every time a new content patch comes out so I can experience it all. Is that so much to ask? Cryptics clearly been leaning this way for a good while now, so I don't even know why you're using it as an arguement.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 31
# 7
01-19-2013, 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcostik View Post
I know they aren't, but why do feds need more carriers? So far all you've done is compare our ships to Klinks. I haven't heard any real arguments. IMO, the Feds have plenty of carriers to choose from. AFAIK, they didn't show any real carriers in canon, so why should Cryptic add in cruiser/carrier refits?
If you haven't heard any arguments just... reread my posts, I guess. I'll summarize for you.

- Cryptics been leaning towards normalizing content between the two factions anyway.
- The Vanguard was originally designed as a flight deck cruiser.
- If you think there was no carrier action going on in canon, DS9's got news for you.
- Cruisers do not play the same as other classes of vessel; the purpose of a flight deck cruiser in an end game environment is to pump up a cruiser's dps capabilities. Why I said pref with a ltcmd tac is so they can double up on attack pattern beta and actually become a viable DPSing force for a change.
- Saying we dont need a flight deck cruiser because we have other carriers is just... wrong. Those other carriers are science and tactical based. The Feds dont have a single engineering carrier right now whereas the KDF has several.

The critical difference between the arguement for a Fed one and a Klink heavy escort carrier is that the KDF doesn't need escort versions to fill the DPS role because of the frigate selection for Vo'Quvs and Kar'fi's guarenteeing them to completely stomp all of the Fed ships DPS wise. So let the Feds excell in playing support carriers and give them a proper engineering flight deck cruiser.

Cause as of right now, KDF players are complaining about Feds getting carriers when KDF carriers are still straight up better, except for the Armitage.

If you compare the ships that actually excel, you still have faction difference, Kar'fi and Vo'Quv vs Armitage and Vesta.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 195
# 8
01-19-2013, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyecolyo View Post

- Cryptics been leaning towards normalizing content between the two factions anyway.
- The Vanguard was originally designed as a flight deck cruiser.
- If you think there was no carrier action going on in canon, DS9's got news for you.
- Cruisers do not play the same as other classes of vessel; the purpose of a flight deck cruiser in an end game environment is to pump up a cruiser's dps capabilities. Why I said pref with a ltcmd tac is so they can double up on attack pattern beta and actually become a viable DPSing force for a change.
- Saying we dont need a flight deck cruiser because we have other carriers is just... wrong. Those other carriers are science and tactical based. The Feds dont have a single engineering carrier right now whereas the KDF has several.
1. I can't argue with you on that. They've definitely be going that way, even more so with the cross faction consoles.

2. Source? I certainly don't remember any flight deck ships in Armada 2. Fleet Ops had one, the Avalon, but it's not a Star Cruiser refit. It's just an Avalon class. At least, looking at the FO page on it, I can't see any reference to class.

3. My bad. It's been a long time since I've seen DS9, and even back then, I wasn't really in to it. What carriers did they show?

4. Cruisers lacking DPS is an argument a lot of cruiser captains make all the time on the forums. The issue is, cruisers are NOT meant, nor supposed to be DPS machines. The role they excel in is support. Unfortunately, a lot of people play them, and expect to be able to put out the same DPS as an escort. It's not what they're built for. If you want DPS on the scale of a escort, fly an escort. Can't fault the ship if you're not putting it in the role it's supposed to be put in.

5 . How is it wrong? It's a valid opinion. If you start giving everything to every class, pretty soon every ship will be the same as every other ship. I don't want that to happen. Also, if you really want a cmd slot in a carrier, pick up a Recluse. I can put an engineer in the universal commander slot, and with that, it becomes one hell of a tanking carrier.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 31
# 9
01-19-2013, 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcostik View Post
1. I can't argue with you on that. They've definitely be going that way, even more so with the cross faction consoles.

2. Source? I certainly don't remember any flight deck ships in Armada 2. Fleet Ops had one, the Avalon, but it's not a Star Cruiser refit. It's just an Avalon class. At least, looking at the FO page on it, I can't see any reference to class.

3. My bad. It's been a long time since I've seen DS9, and even back then, I wasn't really in to it. What carriers did they show?

4. Cruisers lacking DPS is an argument a lot of cruiser captains make all the time on the forums. The issue is, cruisers are NOT meant, nor supposed to be DPS machines. The role they excel in is support. Unfortunately, a lot of people play them, and expect to be able to put out the same DPS as an escort. It's not what they're built for. If you want DPS on the scale of a escort, fly an escort. Can't fault the ship if you're not putting it in the role it's supposed to be put in.

5 . How is it wrong? It's a valid opinion. If you start giving everything to every class, pretty soon every ship will be the same as every other ship. I don't want that to happen. Also, if you really want a cmd slot in a carrier, pick up a Recluse. I can put an engineer in the universal commander slot, and with that, it becomes one hell of a tanking carrier.
Doh, my mistake on the Avalon. You're right. Looked it up and don't know why I remember a flight deck vanguard in that game so distinctly.

Galaxy class ships mostly acted as carriers in DS9. The Federation deployed a boat load (huehuae) of Peregrine fighters in its primary conflicts with them.

As for your 4th point, you assume that there is actually place for multiple roles in this game. There isn't. All of the instances are DPS races. Groups consisting of escorts and carriers will always outperform groups with cruisers and science ships, no matter how much shield damage the latter does. The Vesta in particular was a step towards outfitting science ships more lethally, but cruisers are still laying behind. I play threat control cruisers fed side; I recently specced out of it because there really is no purpose to it anymore. Just went double AP beta on my Reagent so at least I'm helping the real DPS ships do damage while having heals to throw around like extend shields, and honestly I'm both happier and more effective in this ship category now.

Point 5; you can hardly compare a stock or c-store ship to the Recluse. That's not exactly super readily available. And even if I did get one, I'd be using it for a tac slot which would be infinitely more effective. (Too bad the Recluse STILL doesn't outperform the Vo'Quv and its impossibly powerful BoPs.)

Either way, there won't be any other ships except technically the recluse that will compare to a federation flight deck cruiser on the Fed side. The only other ship that will play the same way is the Marauder on the KDF side, so I don't see your latter point. With the number of ships available at this point, it's all about picking one fine tuned to your playstyle, and the Federation doesn't have an engineering tuned carrier right now. Slap shield repair units on it and you're the best healer in the game not named Varanus fleet support vessels. Put fighters on it with double AP beta and you're a better DPS/Healer hybrid than any standard cruiser.

I suppose that's the main concern, at the moment. A flight deck cruiser on fed side would make the stock Sovereign and Vanguard completely irrelevant, even if you dropped an engineering console slot or downgraded a boff slot. But then again, there really is no use for those ships at the minute anyway ~.~
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