Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 184
# 661
01-19-2013, 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
Now, cruisers have more guns than any other type of ship; that's a pretty clear sign that they are supposed to be using those to kill stuff, not just sit about healing things or soaking up damage.
U know those big guys from any mmorpg with insane muscles, crazy giant axes and not less intimidating spiky armors? I know, i know, logic says that they should kill faster than the skinny magical girls in underwear. But actually they only tank and deal medium/low damage (and save the girls princesses booty).

I understand this is not how we see ST on the tv, but clearly trying to port what a tv show/movie/book say to a game like this is not working at all.

And yes, is not the whole problem, but in STO the thin girls can do anything by their own, there is no need of the other guys.

Last edited by wirtdd; 01-19-2013 at 01:17 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,833
# 662
01-19-2013, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Your right, I did miss that. So I'll ask again.

How is it fair to gameplay if Heavy Beams have -

1) The same efficiency of power use of a DHC but with a lower drain rate modifier???
2) Do more damage than DHCs ????
3) Have a 240 degree firing arc so movement is no longer as important, even if they are front mount only????
4) And a bonus +5% to Accuracy

Why would anyone use any thing but Heavy Beams? How is that fair and balanced to have weapon that has all the best of DHCs, none of the handicaps and is only for Cruisers?

As to the 10% bonus resistance for Cruisers, I already stated I liked that idea and agreed ,whether Cruisers got the 1-2 point turn rate buff or not.
How is it fair that DHCs fire all shots at their full power while DCs only fire half at full power. And they get +10% crit severity on top of that along with a proc chance boost so that over time they match a DCs proc amount? All for the lousy cost of an extra 2 power drain on your turret damage...

They would still lack any significant burst, they would deal the same amount of damage as regular beams over time (re less than DHCs) and half their shots would still be at low power. I would not use them in place of DHCs ever. I mean the new romulan beam array has zero power drain and I wouldn't replace a single DHC in any of my builds for it even if they did use plasma.

Last edited by bareel; 01-19-2013 at 01:54 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 718
# 663
01-19-2013, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wirtdd View Post
U know those big guys from any mmorpg with insane muscles, crazy giant axes and not less intimidating spiky armors? I know, i know, logic says that they should kill faster than the skinny magical girls in underwear. But actually they only tank and deal medium/low damage (and save the girls princesses booty).

I understand this is not how we see ST on the tv, but clearly trying to port what a tv show/movie/book say to a game like this is not working at all.

And yes, is not the whole problem, but in STO the thin girls can do anything by their own, there is no need of the other guys.
In any MMORPG I've played, the guy with the big crazy axe was a damage dealer, while the tank would be carrying a fairly modestly sized sword and a shield.

Uh... anyway, if you are talking about the captain classes, then yes I agree; but a tac in a cruiser or science ship is still not as big a deal as a tac in an escort. If escorts were removed from the game, then the relative strengths of the captain classes would probably just add a little flavour, rather than be game changers. The tools to which captain abilities are applied (our ships and weapons) are what make the biggest difference.
________________________________________________

Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 664
01-19-2013, 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
Not a bad thought, but just to play DA, what innate ability would scorts get? Because you know if you're handing them out to Sci and Cruisers, the scort pilots will want one too.

Not to mention that the "Target Subsystem I" skills really don't seem to add a heck of a lot of benefit. The disable effect happens rarely enough that I normally don't bother adding them to my power bar. (I should get around to putting them in a keybind with "Fire all energy weapons" though...)
The escort already has a unique ability, it has the ability to effectively use dual heavy cannons (an effective turn rate and Commander tactical and lower ranking tac boffs). They do damage at a faster rate than cruisers can pretty much heal and most can still soak a cruisers reprisals to boot.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,658
# 665
01-20-2013, 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
The escort already has a unique ability, it has the ability to effectively use dual heavy cannons .......
I hate bursting bubbles, but using DHCs is not a unique ability. KDF battlecruisers and all full carriers can mount them and I'd even say the Battlecrusiers and the Kar'fi use them pretty effectively. It'd be more appropriate to say that fed cruisers are the special case in not being able to use them. I wish they could though, I imagine a lot of the soapbox grandstanding would die down. People would either figure out its not for them or find a way to use DHCs on fed cruisers effectively in PvE.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,460
# 666
01-20-2013, 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
It'd be more appropriate to say that fed cruisers are the special case in not being able to use [DHCs]. I wish they could though, I imagine a lot of the soapbox grandstanding would die down. People would either figure out its not for them or find a way to use DHCs on fed cruisers effectively in PvE.
Not gonna happen. KDF battlecruisers are substantially more agile then the Federation's whales.

If we're going for the simplistic quick fix, then giving all Fed cruisers the movement profile of the battlecruisers would have far more impact on their practical firepower due to the ability to take up and maintain ideal firing positions. Beams suffer from "less" damage falloff over range than cannons, but it's still a very large penalty.

I'm still really liking my idea of giving Federation cruisers an additional +20 discretionary power that they can throw around as needed. It fits their theme of being engineers and scientists, and it gives the Fed cruisers a meaningful counterpoint to KDF's agility, DHCs, and cloak.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 78
# 667
01-20-2013, 12:47 AM
Has anyone even considered this as a quick simple fix?

Increase all power cooldown timers by 25-50% -- across the board.

Simple.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,460
# 668
01-20-2013, 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumcd74656 View Post
Has anyone even considered this as a quick simple fix?

Increase all power cooldown timers by 25-50% -- across the board.

Simple.
You mean the Emergency Power to Foo abilities? Reducing the cooldown times by more than 33% is meaningless since that would get you down to the global cooldown minimum. Doing that would mean cruisers would be able to use a single copy of an Emergency Power ability as often as if they had two copies.

An interesting idea. Though I wonder how much this would really help when it comes to damage output. Emergency Power seems to have a very buggy relationship with weapon power drain. I don't think anybody is seriously complaining that cruisers aren't tough enough, rather the problem is their ability to kill things efficienty.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 669
01-20-2013, 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by momaw View Post
You mean the Emergency Power to Foo abilities? Reducing the cooldown times by more than 33% is meaningless since that would get you down to the global cooldown minimum. Doing that would mean cruisers would be able to use a single copy of an Emergency Power ability as often as if they had two copies.

An interesting idea. Though I wonder how much this would really help when it comes to damage output. Emergency Power seems to have a very buggy relationship with weapon power drain. I don't think anybody is seriously complaining that cruisers aren't tough enough, rather the problem is their ability to kill things efficienty.
EPtW has a substantial effect on damage output in a cruiser running BAs, even after the 5 second damage bonus has worn off. Every cruiser build I have uses EPtW2 rather copiously and liberally. I am of the mind of "If it doesn't work properly, throw energy at it until it does". Which ironically works well with my fave main toon, an engi. And a cruiser with EPtW2 (+~30 weapons power) can negate the effect of 3 BAs right there, and if my DCEs are kind and proc, I get the EPtW back as soon as it wears off. If my WCE is kind and procs, my weapon power skyrockets. It's wonderful.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,332
# 670
01-21-2013, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
I hate bursting bubbles, but using DHCs is not a unique ability. KDF battlecruisers and all full carriers can mount them and I'd even say the Battlecrusiers and the Kar'fi use them pretty effectively. It'd be more appropriate to say that fed cruisers are the special case in not being able to use them. I wish they could though, I imagine a lot of the soapbox grandstanding would die down. People would either figure out its not for them or find a way to use DHCs on fed cruisers effectively in PvE.
Only problem with equipping Fed' cruisers with DC/DHC is that they really can't make effective use of them with less than stellar maneuverability and the DC/DHC narrow firing arc. The Galaxy X is a prime example of why it really doesn't work well. The Excelsior might me able to make use of it if set up with a fair bit of power to engines and RCS accelerators, but the other cruisers would be pressed to make good use of them.

Also don't forget that Escorts have Commander level Tac boffs to use high end (and multiple) cannon boff skills. An escort can use CRF3 and have CRF2 AND CSV2 (not to mention a bunch of other skills) in tow with the shorter cooldown.

Klingon battle-cruisers, like the Vorcha have the maneuverability to use DC/DHC. I don't know about the full carriers using DC/DHC's, 5-6' turn rate doesn't really lend to them being highly effective.

Personally, DC/DHC wont help the Fed' cruisers, but a different approach to making them more potent would.

Last edited by whamhammer1; 01-21-2013 at 09:43 AM.
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