Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,005
# 21
01-19-2013, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Your argument however is nullified because before the Odyssey there was no cruiser with a LtCmdr Science. And as multiple users have already stated, escorts are powerful enough as is, and there are enough of them to do EVERY bloody role in the game. We don't need more escorts. We don't need more science ships. We don't need more cruisers. FFS we don't need more fed ships.

Take your ideas, and GIVE THEM TO THE KDF.
So your issue isn't that I want escorts, it's that I want a Fed ship.

For the record, I totally support more KDF ships, but... they've said KDF ships aren't very profitable. Still, as this is a Fed Shipyard thread, I'm not going to talk overly much about KDF ships.

Between the Odyssey and the Vesta, though, we've got plenty of options for people who want to fly a Cruiser or a Science ship, just like you claim we've got plenty of options for Escort captains. Really, the only thing we have left is aesthetics and special abilities, and the Odyssey and Vesta have some very nice special abilities.

The only thing we really have left is a broadsiding ship, or a turret-based ship. I'd actually like to see a Cruiser, too, that had an inherent bonus to Turret power to bring them up to par with Phaser Arrays, and came with two side-mounted Kinetic Dual Heavy Cannons.

Radically different setups like that are really all that's left, though, so I don't see why you're arguing so much against an Escort 3-pack.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 22
01-19-2013, 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
So you're saying Escorts don't deserve a ship with a Lt. Com Universal station, even though the Odyssey has one of those in each of its variants?
No because all niches are filled ... Heavy Escort Carrier have a Lt. Cmdr Eng and the M/VAE have one with a Lt. Cmdr Sci, also they nearly the same stats with the Heavy Escort Carrier having more hull, rest about the same with a swamp here and there.

Unless you want a Defiant with a worst turn rate ... is that what you want?

Quote:
And Escorts don't deserve a ship with three special console powers, and a 3-console set bonus?
Why should they?

Any power would either make it tank better and they already tank TOO well in most opinions or they would to raise their damage ... why does a escort needs a Console set?

So they get deal more damage or became even more resistant?

Quote:
Your whole argument forgets that the Odyssey was a retreat of several previous cruisers, too.
No, it doesnt.

The Excelsior was THE Tactical Cruiser but the Tactical Odyssey isnt one, the only way the Tac Oddy is viable as a attack cruiser is when using separation that is on the Operations Odyssey and a lot of people go with Sci Oddys because SA.

The Odyssey inst a Vesta that OMG OP! were ones needs to probe deeper to see the problems and still its one heck of a survivalist ship.

Quote:
We had a cruiser with Lt. Com Tactical before Odyssey. It was called Excelsior.
Yes because we all know a Uni Lt. Cmdr station on a escort would be just be put on Tactical right?

Quote:
We also had a cruiser with a Lt. Com engineering station and saucer separation. It was called the Galaxy Retrofit. So why, again, should Escorts not get a 3-pack?
For the exact same reason we DONT get a Escort with a Lt. Cmdr Uni along with a Lt. Sci and a Lt Eng because we KNOW were it would that station would be used.

If they grimp it and make it oh turn rate 14 like the Chimera (that actually does have a Lt. Cmdr uni and all what I said) in order to have balance then you people would complain about its turn rate, if they lower the turn rate and make it go slower to try to balance the 7 healing abilities you just loaded then you people will cry you got a Cruiser and not a escort.

You are putting Cruisers, Science Ships and Escorts on the same bag and everyone here knows they ARENT, Sci ships have a lack of firepower and have to be gimped broadsiders until SA starts to put then on pair with cruisers, Cruisers have to try to broadside ships that will simply outmaneuver then and concentrate fire on a shield facing, there are situations were a Escort cannot kill a Cruiser but the Cruiser also cannot kill the Escort, this is wrong and you are just pushing it to the point were the Escort can kill the Cruiser.

Now, would you accept a Escort that would have Turn rate 14, a 1 Shield modifier, had a Uni Lt Cmdr station along with a Uni Ens station on top a Cmdr Tac, Lt Sci and Eng stations with Sensor Analysis BUT could not mount dual cannons and also would not have 5 Tactical consoles?

Last edited by f2pdrakron; 01-19-2013 at 03:56 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 23
01-19-2013, 05:07 PM
I would say we are fine when it comes to escorts.What is really needed is small rader like the maqiue.
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 24
01-19-2013, 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
So your issue isn't that I want escorts, it's that I want a Fed ship.

For the record, I totally support more KDF ships, but... they've said KDF ships aren't very profitable. Still, as this is a Fed Shipyard thread, I'm not going to talk overly much about KDF ships.

Between the Odyssey and the Vesta, though, we've got plenty of options for people who want to fly a Cruiser or a Science ship, just like you claim we've got plenty of options for Escort captains. Really, the only thing we have left is aesthetics and special abilities, and the Odyssey and Vesta have some very nice special abilities.

The only thing we really have left is a broadsiding ship, or a turret-based ship. I'd actually like to see a Cruiser, too, that had an inherent bonus to Turret power to bring them up to par with Phaser Arrays, and came with two side-mounted Kinetic Dual Heavy Cannons.

Radically different setups like that are really all that's left, though, so I don't see why you're arguing so much against an Escort 3-pack.
No, my issue is not that you want a fed ship, my issue is that the addition of even MORE escorts is completely unnecessary, like F2P said, all the niches for escorts are filled. The only thing left in the offensive department as fed ships go are more hybrids, more destroyers.

You have an escort that can tank well (engineering heavy) in the FPE and Steamrunner. You have an escort that can shred faces (tactical heavy) in the FTER and JAS. You have an escort that can CC and mind-**** (science heavy) in the FAER (and non fleet variants of listed ships). As stated, all the niches are filled.

The reason that the Odyssey was given such versatility was because there were no really science heavy cruisers (a role it can fill), no really tactically heavy cruisers (regent came out AFTER the odyssey), and the Operations Odyssey was mostly for the saucer sep I think, because as you said, the ECR and FECR are engi heavy.

The Vesta IMO was an unnecessary addition, since there were science ships that filled all niches, but I am guessing it was put in since science hadn't gotten any love recently, there were enough people who liked the novels, and they figured "eh, put in a science ship that can have pretty damn good damage output".

But as escorts go, they are already fast, tough, have some SICK teeth, and are just overall quite powerful. You don't really need 3 more, which is precisely why I suggested put this over to the KDF side, since they need some loving. A raptor 3 pack would be very interesting, especially a science heavy raptor of some kind, something I think is lacking atm. In fact science heavy ANYTHING on the KDF side is missing, so I would suggest you put some stuff up on those sub-forums, since your ideas seem pretty good to me.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 25
01-19-2013, 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
But as escorts go, they are already fast, tough, have some SICK teeth, and are just overall quite powerful. You don't really need 3 more, which is precisely why I suggested put this over to the KDF side, since they need some loving. A raptor 3 pack would be very interesting, especially a science heavy raptor of some kind, something I think is lacking atm. In fact science heavy ANYTHING on the KDF side is missing, so I would suggest you put some stuff up on those sub-forums, since your ideas seem pretty good to me.
I don't play Klingon, these aren't the KDF forums (these are forums for Federation ships), sooo... while I support them getting more ships, beyond that I just don't care. I'm not going to spend any time thinking about Klingon ships, and it would probably be a waste anyway since KDF players apparently don't buy those C-Store ships.

If you care about KDF players getting KDF ships, then you can go on over to the KDF forums (--> right here <--) and make a post yourself. I'm sure not gonna, and you seem a hell of a lot more passionate about KDF than I am.

I don't see the harm in an Escort 3-pack. In fact, I think it's inevitable, because we all know it would sell, even if it does retread some of the same ground as other ships. They could still design a sleek and fun aesthetic for it, and come up with some pretty awesome special console abilities.

Last edited by thratch1; 01-19-2013 at 06:34 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 26
01-20-2013, 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
*snip*
I know you aren't intentionally being an ***hole, but you come across as one with that last post. I know exactly where the KDF forums are. They're right under the fed ones thanks. I also find it highly amusing that you think KDF players don't get things from the C-store, when I know for a fact that they do. I see way too many aceton assimilators and bio-neurals in PvE and PvP to even consider otherwise, to say nothing of the sheer number of Kar'fis running around. All of which come from the C-store. HERP.

As for the rest of your post, the only reason I suggested you post there is because they are in need of those kinds of ships, and the feds aren't. There is no reason at all to add in more fed escorts. They have one that fills each niche quite nicely as I previously posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
You have an escort that can tank well (engineering heavy) in the FPE and Steamrunner. You have an escort that can shred faces (tactical heavy) in the FTER and JAS. You have an escort that can CC and mind-**** (science heavy) in the FAER (and non fleet variants of listed ships). As stated, all the niches are filled.
And no, an escort 3-pack is NOT inevitable. Far from it.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 450
# 27
01-20-2013, 04:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
And no, an escort 3-pack is NOT inevitable. Far from it.
While I agree with you that we do not need an Escort 3 pack as we obviously have a diverse bunch of escorts to choose from which fill all the various rolls as was already mentioned. I'm willing to bet Cryptic will put out a pack eventually, they obviously love their escorts.


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Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 28
# 28
01-20-2013, 07:03 AM
i think they should do the dauntless from voyager but as a science escort
as we got escort cruisers science type cruisers i think we need a science escort
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 29
01-20-2013, 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaindjm15 View Post
i think they should do the dauntless from voyager but as a science escort
as we got escort cruisers science type cruisers i think we need a science escort
We have a science escort. Advanced Escort and all it's variants. And that ship you mentioned is already in game, the Trident Class.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,005
# 30
01-20-2013, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
I know you aren't intentionally being an ***hole, but you come across as one with that last post. I know exactly where the KDF forums are. They're right under the fed ones thanks.
Then go post there, and stop harping on about KDF here. This isn't the place to discuss KDF ships. I don't care about KDF ships. If you care, then go on over there and talk about it.

Quote:
I also find it highly amusing that you think KDF players don't get things from the C-store, when I know for a fact that they do. I see way too many aceton assimilators and bio-neurals in PvE and PvP to even consider otherwise, to say nothing of the sheer number of Kar'fis running around. All of which come from the C-store. HERP.

As for the rest of your post, the only reason I suggested you post there is because they are in need of those kinds of ships, and the feds aren't. There is no reason at all to add in more fed escorts. They have one that fills each niche quite nicely as I previously posted.
Cryptic themselves said that many KDF ships put up on the C-Store just weren't profitable, which is why they don't make a lot of them. Maybe some are, but it's clearly not worth their time compared to Federation ships. That's just the way it is.

You may see a lot of those things, but that doesn't mean people are buying those things in droves. Keep in mind that your personal experience is not the same thing as hard facts. If KDF players were buying a lot of C-Store KDF ships, then Cryptic would make more.

Quote:
And no, an escort 3-pack is NOT inevitable. Far from it.
How do you know? We know Federation ships make money, we know 3-packs make money, and we know Escorts make money. It would be foolish of Cryptic not to make an escort 3-pack, because of how much money it would make. We all hope they'll take their time with it so that escort has a great design and doesn't break the game, but it's coming eventually.

On top of that, your cited examples of what KDF players buy included two examples of unique equipment -- a console and a weapon. You keep harping on about how there are ships out there already that fill a niche, but forget how awesome unique weapons and console powers can be. They would still make those escorts unique even if they did perform similarly to other escorts.

Anyway, stop bringing up the KDF. If you want to talk about KDF, go to their forums. I'm just going to mentally white out every sentence that has "KDF" in it from now on, because, for one last time, I do not care about the KDF.
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