Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 61
01-20-2013, 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiejon View Post
At what level of ships do they use this power ?

This challenge just gets more and more .... unreasonable is a nice way to put it.
I'm not sure how this is unreasonable. Think of it like this. You, as a sci player, can use a power that brings in a photonic fleet for support. The Tholians have a power that can open a rift that brings in mirror universe ships to help them. It's just an innate power they have and should not affect your lore if a player has fought against Tholians in Cryptic-created content as its just part of the norm.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,448
# 62
01-20-2013, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
I'm not sure how this is unreasonable. Think of it like this. You, as a sci player, can use a power that brings in a photonic fleet for support. The Tholians have a power that can open a rift that brings in mirror universe ships to help them. It's just an innate power they have and should not affect your lore if a player has fought against Tholians in Cryptic-created content as its just part of the norm.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
For present day, I agree, Branflakes.

It's probably less reasonable for folks who want to do Dominion War or TOS era Tholian missions.

Part of the "challenge", yes. But longterm, pure Tholian groups would be nice.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,413
# 63
01-20-2013, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
I'm not sure how this is unreasonable. Think of it like this. You, as a sci player, can use a power that brings in a photonics fleet. The Thilians can open a rift that brings in mirror universe ships to help. It's just an innate power they have and should not affect your lore if player have fought against Tholians in Cryptic-created content as its just part of the norm.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
I agree that this is current lore, and on some level, if our missions deal with this we should address it. That's not unreasonable.

Asking us to design a story around this enemy though, when we don't even have full information about how the enemy works, simply adds to the fact that without workarounds that are clumsy, we cannot even have PCs talk to them, and that is the place I feel this is unreasonable.

There are many questions.

Do weak mobs summon Mirror Ships, is it only Battleships? Does this happen with ANY Tholian space contact?

It means that we can't even play the trick of boxing them in somehow to initiate a conversation, because they are always a hostile enemy group , they might pop this power on a player and suddenly there is a mirror enemy ship , where the author designed for their to be a conversation.

We cannot predict what an enemy mob of Tholians will bring to the party.

Is a Tholian Battleship mob just as powerful as any other Battleship ? but with the ability to summon another powerful mob on the PCs ?

We just don't know the answers on how that Tholian power works.
What are they capable of summoning ?
How powerful are the summoned mobs?
What is the cooldown on the power ?
Does this likewise cause the Wells and such to spawn for the PCs team (as in the official content)? Is that part of fighting Tholian Mobs, or is that map specific to the Cryptic content ?

I've not indicated that it's impossible. Annoying yes, somewhat unreasonable yes, but not impossible.

Just please take the overwhelming response of the authors around this into consideration as you plan future challenges. Really , that's all I ask.

Well, that and any answers to any of the above questions you can provide.

As you like to say, Oh Flakey One

Cheers !
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,265
# 64
01-20-2013, 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
It's part of the STO lore of the Tholians and what their up to nowadays.
Yeah, about that ... are we actually going to get an explanation for this anytime soon? After that incident on Nukara Prime I'd think the Terrans and the Tholians would hate each other's guts.

Also, I've only seen the Orb Weaver Cruisers summoning Terran Empire ships. Is that the only one that can do that?
"It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."
-- Q
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,424
# 65
01-20-2013, 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
If I'm not mistaken, the mob you put down will be all Tholiam ships. One of the powers they use calls in mirror universe ships, as seen in the various PvE content against Tholians, so I believe this is what you're seeing. It's part of the STO lore of the Tholians and what their up to nowadays.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
the tholians been opening lockboxes?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,413
# 66
01-20-2013, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thay8472 View Post
the tholians been opening lockboxes?
Thank you for the laugh
Former PWE Community Team Lead
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9,046
# 67
01-20-2013, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiejon View Post
I agree that this is current lore, and on some level, if our missions deal with this we should address it. That's not unreasonable.

Asking us to design a story around this enemy though, when we don't even have full information about how the enemy works, simply adds to the fact that without workarounds that are clumsy, we cannot even have PCs talk to them, and that is the place I feel this is unreasonable.

There are many questions.

Do weak mobs summon Mirror Ships, is it only Battleships? Does this happen with ANY Tholian space contact?

It means that we can't even play the trick of boxing them in somehow to initiate a conversation, because they are always a hostile enemy group , they might pop this power on a player and suddenly there is a mirror enemy ship , where the author designed for their to be a conversation.

We cannot predict what an enemy mob of Tholians will bring to the party.

Is a Tholian Battleship mob just as powerful as any other Battleship ? but with the ability to summon another powerful mob on the PCs ?

We just don't know the answers on how that Tholian power works.
What are they capable of summoning ?
How powerful are the summoned mobs?
What is the cooldown on the power ?
Does this likewise cause the Wells and such to spawn for the PCs team (as in the official content)? Is that part of fighting Tholian Mobs, or is that map specific to the Cryptic content ?

I've not indicated that it's impossible. Annoying yes, somewhat unreasonable yes, but not impossible.

Just please take the overwhelming response of the authors around this into consideration as you plan future challenges. Really , that's all I ask.

Well, that and any answers to any of the above questions you can provide.

As you like to say, Oh Flakey One

Cheers !
I don't know these answers, unfortunately. I'll see if the systems team can provide more info on when they would appear. I am fairly certain only certain ships have the power and that they have to be engaging an enemy (e.g. a player, a ship that's an enemy to them, etc.) to use the power, and that if they are just patrolling, they don't have the ability to open a rift.

As for "...when we don't even have full information about how the enemy works...", has that information been provided in the past regarding other enemy mobs? I'm not saying it hasn't, but I'm wondering how authors planned around the powers that other enemies use.

Again, I truly appreciate the feedback and will take into consideration for the future. I will also continue to stand behind the notion that this "challenge" is meant to be a challenge, maybe more so than any others in the past. I am also thrilled at the response so far with those who have made their mission post in the actual challenge announcement thread. All of the other challenges have not requested you use a specific enemy group, and I don't think a future one will; however, I did decide on this challenge specifically because the Tholians were being added. Look at this as an opportunity to push yourself as an author, but if you don't want to participate, that's okay too and I understand In the end, participate in the challenges that interest you, and in those that you feel you are going to have fun with -- that is what it is all about. I definitely do not expect that authors will want to participate in every single one.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=
Brandon "BranFlakes" Felczer | Former Community Team Lead for Perfect World Entertainment
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,413
# 68
01-20-2013, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
I don't know these answers, unfortunately. I'll see if the systems team can provide more info on when they would appear. I am fairly certain only certain ships have the power and that they have to be engaging an enemy (e.g. a player, a ship that's an enemy to them, etc.) to use the power, and that if they are just patrolling, they don't have the ability to open a rift.
Thanks for the insight, and the willingness to ask the team for us

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
As for "...when we don't even have full information about how the enemy works...", has that information been provided in the past regarding other enemy mobs? I'm not saying it hasn't, but I'm wondering how authors planned around the powers that other enemies use.
I would imagine (in my case anyway) this is strictly a matter of the other enemy types having been in game long enough that the powers they use are pretty common knowledge at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
... I definitely do not expect that authors will want to participate in every single one.
You don't know me very well

Thanks for the replies, Brandon.

Peace !

Last edited by hippiejon; 01-20-2013 at 09:43 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,827
# 69
01-20-2013, 10:14 AM
Quote:
I don't know these answers, unfortunately. I'll see if the systems team can provide more info on when they would appear. I am fairly certain only certain ships have the power and that they have to be engaging an enemy (e.g. a player, a ship that's an enemy to them, etc.) to use the power, and that if they are just patrolling, they don't have the ability to open a rift.
I'm not too worried about it for my challenge mission, but for the future I'd love to know that so if I wanted pure Tholians I know what groups to put down.

I know you don't have any say on whats given to us from a technical standpoint, so I very much appreciate your willingness to discuss these issues. I know sometimes our concerns may seem trivial, but from our perspective, we're tying to be storytellers here and its tough when you don't have the tools you need.
The Foundry Roundtable live Wednesdays at 7:30PM EST/4:30PM PST on twitch.tv/thefoundryroundtable
Forum Logic dictates that if the devs don't do what a poster wants, they therefor actively hate what that poster is advocating for. Forum Logic =/= Real Logic
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,696
# 70
01-20-2013, 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajstoner View Post
Guess what, Tholian space mobs (which cannot be reskinned) randomly produce mirror Federation ships as well as Tholian ones.

This means that in any given situation you cannot even be certain which a player will be facing when a Tholian mob is placed. This is actually a bigger limitation than no contacts being available; at least you can plan your mission around that--This will change from play to play.
Um, Yes you can. I just tinkered with it and I was able to reskin Tholian units. I didn't test every type of mob, but all the ones I tested worked fine. I was able to reskin a battleship group as a Borg Diamond, and am ensign group as Boslics.
Quote:
You don't know me very well
hehe, he don't know me very well do he?
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:50 PM.