Ensign
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16
# 41
01-20-2013, 08:49 AM
As I've said, I'm not advocating a Tier 5 Connie. I want a retro TOS battleship or supercruiser, which would be far less out-of-place among the battleships and supercruisers that make up T5 at the moment.

Additionally, for people who do want it - just because someone in power has said no to something it certainly doesn't mean that one should give up hope of achieving it

*ahem* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deq6_p47g54


What they've said is no to a T5 retro Connie, though, am I right? There's still a chance that they could make a T5 Cruiser, with Exeter or other modern skin.


As for your suggestion, the holo-emmitter thing would work, but I wouldn't want to pay through the nose for something that only lasts a bloody hour! I'd want it to be a permenant skin option.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,496
# 42
01-20-2013, 10:00 AM
Kirk1>Picard>Pike2>Kirk2>CKirk>Pike1>Archer>Janewa y>Sisko...

As in...

TOS>TNG>JJTrek>TAS>Ent>VOY>DS9...

As far as TV. Movies? TOS>JJTrek>TNG (the bad outweighed the good, imo)...

The thing is, though, and I'm not sure why this is so often overlooked - but um...

The original Connie was gone with TMP.
The refit was scheduled for decom at the end of Undiscovered.
The Excelsior took over with Generations.

Generations...2293. It's ~2409. 116 years later.

The Connie entered service in the early 2240s, before 2245. Say we even go with 2245. It's ~2409. 164 years later.

It's not even really about the ship 164 years later. It was replaced 116 years ago. It was replaced during the TOS-movie timeline.

As a person that prefers TOS, yeah - I'd love to be flying around in a TOS-era designed game. It's not. It's not a TNG, not a VOY, not a DS9 era game. It's STO...

Much like Kirk went from the ol' Connie to the refit to the retrofit...and much like his comments about the Enterprise-B not being the Enterprise without a Sulu at the helm - the spirit of the Enterprise was not because it was a Connie - because it was an Excelsior - an Ambassador - a Galaxy - a Sovereign or even the Odyssey... Star Trek was about much more than just the ship.

The Connie's not missing from endgame in STO. The Connie was replaced long ago. No, what's missing from the endgame in STO...well, Star Trek is...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 990
# 43
01-20-2013, 11:15 AM
Technically, it was never stated anywhere that the Constitution class as a whole was being retired; the Enterprise may simply have been decommissioned due to wear and tear.

We also don't know that the Excelsior was meant as a replacement for the Connie; the two classes may well have continued serving alongside each other in different roles.

Lastly, we don't know for a fact that the Connie refit was universal; it's not uncommon for ships to be put in mothballs against some future need. Such ships may well have skipped the refit, due to it being too much trouble and expense for ships that are not in active service.

It's possible to rationalize just about anything, if you put a little effort into it.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 255
# 44
01-20-2013, 11:50 AM
i know that starfleet still uses the nx desination for experimental ships and ships with exerimental tech.

earth also had a hole ship class nx class in the 2150's from star trek enterprise.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 255
# 45
01-20-2013, 11:57 AM
i was going be star trek enterprise show it self about the enterprise being called the NX class
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,496
# 46
01-20-2013, 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
Technically, it was never stated anywhere that the Constitution class as a whole was being retired; the Enterprise may simply have been decommissioned due to wear and tear.

We also don't know that the Excelsior was meant as a replacement for the Connie; the two classes may well have continued serving alongside each other in different roles.
Enterprise was a flagship ship. With the move from the Constitution to the Excelsior, the Excelsior replaced the Constitution as the flagship ship. Doesn't mean that all Constitution vessels were automatically decommissioned. Some would have continued in their current roles until replaced, some would have served in other roles, etc, etc, etc. Starfleet couldn't just wave a magic wand and replace all their ships.

Even there, the lower production costs and operating expenses of the Miranda better suited the majority of the secondary roles that a Constitution might have found itself in...it would have been illogical to continue manufacturing the class.

Moving along into the TNG+ timeline, we know that certain higher ranked Starfleet officers continued to use Excelsior class vessels as their "personal" flagships. Constitution vessels on the other hand...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
Lastly, we don't know for a fact that the Connie refit was universal; it's not uncommon for ships to be put in mothballs against some future need. Such ships may well have skipped the refit, due to it being too much trouble and expense for ships that are not in active service.
Obviously unless needed, there would have been ships that would not have been refit. There were newer ships as well as ships with less operating expenditures where those resources would have been better allocated.

Likewise, ships that were mothballed may have been cannibalized for parts - stripped for raw resources - or simply crashed into an ocean on some water planet to create artificial reefs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
It's possible to rationalize just about anything, if you put a little effort into it.
Rationalization is often a defense/coping mechanism for when somebody is unwilling or unable to accept the reality of a situation, the potential consequences of decision, or to try to justify something...where they need to put that effort into it.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 990
# 47
01-20-2013, 12:45 PM
And the reality is that both versions of the Connie are in STO; which means they obviously weren't completely withdrawn from service. I have no good explanation for this either; hence 'rationalize'.

If we are reaching for explanations, we may as well go ahead and say something like 'advances in technology since the Constitution refit have made the refit itself redundant; allowing for previously obsolete designs to be upgraded to modern standards without going to the trouble of rebuilding the ship from the keel up'. Since we don't really have a good reason to assume that this couldn't possibly be the case.
Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read

BTW, you'd pronounce it 'Cap'n Manks'

I protest the removal of exploration clusters
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 193
# 48
01-20-2013, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commanderxon View Post
As I've said, I'm not advocating a Tier 5 Connie. I want a retro TOS battleship or supercruiser, which would be far less out-of-place among the battleships and supercruisers that make up T5 at the moment.

Additionally, for people who do want it - just because someone in power has said no to something it certainly doesn't mean that one should give up hope of achieving it

*ahem* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deq6_p47g54


What they've said is no to a T5 retro Connie, though, am I right? There's still a chance that they could make a T5 Cruiser, with Exeter or other modern skin.


As for your suggestion, the holo-emmitter thing would work, but I wouldn't want to pay through the nose for something that only lasts a bloody hour! I'd want it to be a permenant skin option.

most awsome post ever. maybe it should have a regenerating timer and cost more?

Last edited by silverashes1; 01-20-2013 at 01:06 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,449
# 49
01-20-2013, 04:12 PM
Enterprise was just another alternate universe with Archer.
Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,155
# 50
01-20-2013, 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by age03 View Post
Enterprise was just another alternate universe with Archer.
Says who?/10chars
Say NO to mandatory Arc!
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