Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 28
# 31
01-20-2013, 10:39 AM
yh but another proper science escort would be better as the Prometheus is a escort and not a proper science/escort ship
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 260
# 32
01-20-2013, 11:28 AM
the wish list have been many miles long for over tree years for both the ambassador class and the ka'vort ever since star trek online bata. the ambassador the third anniversry ship could be somewhat more popular because the ambassador class was mention in season on st tng as being walker ship and showed up on both st tng yesterday enterprise and in ds9 polot episode.

it is a little disapointing that the starfleet is getting the ambassador class while the klingons are getting a proto vorcha hybirde which is mixed with k'tinga and vorcha instead of the ka'vort battle for star trek online third anniversy.

maybe if st tng yesterday's enterprise was not put rushed diet and give a proper 3-4 week the ambassador might have been closer to andrew probet's ambassador class and the ka'vort wing might have been replaced 2 proto vorcha's with sto klingon hybirde k'tinga.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 33
01-20-2013, 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
Then go post there, and stop harping on about KDF here. This isn't the place to discuss KDF ships. I don't care about KDF ships. If you care, then go on over there and talk about it.



Cryptic themselves said that many KDF ships put up on the C-Store just weren't profitable, which is why they don't make a lot of them. Maybe some are, but it's clearly not worth their time compared to Federation ships. That's just the way it is.

You may see a lot of those things, but that doesn't mean people are buying those things in droves. Keep in mind that your personal experience is not the same thing as hard facts. If KDF players were buying a lot of C-Store KDF ships, then Cryptic would make more.



How do you know? We know Federation ships make money, we know 3-packs make money, and we know Escorts make money. It would be foolish of Cryptic not to make an escort 3-pack, because of how much money it would make. We all hope they'll take their time with it so that escort has a great design and doesn't break the game, but it's coming eventually.

On top of that, your cited examples of what KDF players buy included two examples of unique equipment -- a console and a weapon. You keep harping on about how there are ships out there already that fill a niche, but forget how awesome unique weapons and console powers can be. They would still make those escorts unique even if they did perform similarly to other escorts.

Anyway, stop bringing up the KDF. If you want to talk about KDF, go to their forums. I'm just going to mentally white out every sentence that has "KDF" in it from now on, because, for one last time, I do not care about the KDF.
Ok now I am pretty sure you're being an ***hole on purpose. And I can respect that since I honestly don't care. But I will simply state what I have been saying this whole time. There are no gaps in the escort line-up. They closed the last of those gaps with the Steamrunner. And ffs, there is an escort with carrier pets. We don't need more escorts. The ship line-up for the feds is fine.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 34
01-20-2013, 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Ok now I am pretty sure you're being an ***hole on purpose. And I can respect that since I honestly don't care. But I will simply state what I have been saying this whole time. There are no gaps in the escort line-up. They closed the last of those gaps with the Steamrunner. And ffs, there is an escort with carrier pets. We don't need more escorts. The ship line-up for the feds is fine.
I'm sorry you're so passionate and angry that you're reduced to profanity and name-calling.

Anyway, you seem to have forgotten that for about two and a half years, STO was basically "Cruisers Online, guest starring a few escorts and science ships." Since the Odyssey came out, we've seen (off the top of my head now):

Galor (cruiser)
Ferengi D'kor Marauder (cruiser)
Assault Cruiser Refit (cruiser)
Ambassador-class (cruiser)**


Heavy Escort Carrier (escort)
Blockade Runner Escort (escort)
Chimera Heavy Destroyer (escort)***
Mobius Temporal Destroyer (escort)
Aquarius Destroyer (escort) (also, boooo)****


Atrox Carrier (science)
Tholian Orb Weaver (science)
Tholian Recluse Carrier (science)
Vesta 3-pack (science)*
Wells Temporal Vessel (science)


Breen Chet Grell Warship (Hybrid: Cruiser Weapons Loadout, Tactical Comm. Boff station, Science Device/Turn rate/Hull)

*Maybe I could count the Vesta three times since there are small differences between each ship, but to be sporting I won't since they're still so similar.
**This is admittedly an assumption, given that its stats haven't been released yet.
***Priced outside of reasonable access for the average player.
****Awful. Just awful. More on that later.

Basically, we've seen Cryptic catching Science ships and Escort ships up to where Cruisers were. There's nothing wrong with that! We do have a fairly balanced setup Fed-side, and I've never said we didn't.

You know what we don't have, though? A proper Starfleet response to Birds-of-Prey. I'm not talking about battle cloak, either -- I don't care about battle cloaks, or indeed cloaking devices at all. I swapped my Defiant's cloak out for a Subspace Jump console, and only use the Cloak when I'm doing PVP (and even then, not all the time).

The Aquarius is a step towards that, with its decreased hull HP and low Shield Modifier. That's just it, though... the Aquarius is basically the base stats of the Defiant, with reduced Weapons Slots, Hull and Shields, and some universal stations. It's a crippled warship. It doesn't even have a better turn rate than the Defiant.

So what, you ask, would I want from a proper Escort 3-pack? Something succeeding where Aquarius has failed. A super fast, nimble destroyer with a fun gimmick that sets it apart from the Bird-of-Prey. BoPs succeed (in theory) based on their Battle Cloaks, doing hit-and-run attacks. If Cryptic put their minds to it, they could put in proper small Destroyers for the Fed side that were fun to play without being direct copies off of the BoP.

And, hell, maybe they could make a dual-release out of it! New Destroyers for the Feds, new BoPs for the KDF, just like they did with the Odyssey and Bortas'qu.

You say there's no niche left to fill, I say you aren't using your imagination. And leave the immature name-calling out of the conversation next time you post, please.

Last edited by thratch1; 01-20-2013 at 06:29 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 246
# 35
01-20-2013, 05:45 PM
Personally give me a fleet defiant with a universal Lt. Commander or engi slot that rank and i'd be thrilled.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 36
01-20-2013, 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
*snip*
Profanity and name calling he says? Simple statement of fact say I.

However your analysis as interesting as it is, does have a few holes. For starters, the Chimera and Mobius/Krenn are not escorts, they are hybrid destroyers. Reasons? They can out-tank most other escorts (other than the JAS) if built properly, but they cannot out-damage most other escorts. Also you missed the Fleet Regent and Fleet Excelsior. However I do appreciate you bringing the rest of that information to the forefront.

However, now that you have stated what you actually want:

Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
A proper Starfleet response to Birds-of-Prey.
I can stop being devil's advocate and actually have an intellectual discussion with you.

You said you would want a ship that was fast and nimble like the aquarius. I can respect that, and actually approve of this idea. But if you wanted a ship like that, it would have to make similar sacrifices to what BoPs have, which is decreased console and BOff slot counts. It would also be forced to rely on hit and fade tactics like the BoPs.

Another thing you would run into is a HUGE wall of NO from the KDF community, many of whom feel strongly about fed players infringing on what is supposed to be KDF exclusive content, like carriers, cloak, and raiders. What you would be asking for is a raider, plain and simple. Now as much as I think it's at least an interesting idea, the amount of resistance you will be hitting is quite strong. Just an FYI.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 37
01-20-2013, 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
Profanity and name calling he says? Simple statement of fact say I.
Who was the first one to bring profanity and name-calling into this discussion? Hint: it wasn't me. I think a variation of "he who smelt it, delt it" is appropriate here. You're the one who decided to resort to base vulgarity over a simple discussion just because I said I don't care about KDF, and I think that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Quote:
However your analysis as interesting as it is, does have a few holes. For starters, the Chimera and Mobius/Krenn are not escorts, they are hybrid destroyers. Reasons? They can out-tank most other escorts (other than the JAS) if built properly, but they cannot out-damage most other escorts. Also you missed the Fleet Regent and Fleet Excelsior. However I do appreciate you bringing the rest of that information to the forefront.
Obviously, I didn't include any Fleet ships at all, since all Fleet ships are just suped-up versions of existing ships, and aren't really relevant.

The Chimera and Mobius are both classified as Escorts... but if you want to say they aren't escorts, then you're actually poking holes in your own argument about there not being gaps in the Escort line-up. I'm gonna leave that alone, though.

Quote:
However, now that you have stated what you actually want:

I can stop being devil's advocate and actually have an intellectual discussion with you.

You said you would want a ship that was fast and nimble like the aquarius. I can respect that, and actually approve of this idea. But if you wanted a ship like that, it would have to make similar sacrifices to what BoPs have, which is decreased console and BOff slot counts. It would also be forced to rely on hit and fade tactics like the BoPs.

Another thing you would run into is a HUGE wall of NO from the KDF community, many of whom feel strongly about fed players infringing on what is supposed to be KDF exclusive content, like carriers, cloak, and raiders. What you would be asking for is a raider, plain and simple. Now as much as I think it's at least an interesting idea, the amount of resistance you will be hitting is quite strong. Just an FYI.
The Federation already has a "raider"... it just blows hard. The Aquarius makes many sacrifices that the BoPs make, just with none of the benefits. Cryptic needs to provide something substantially better if it's not going to buff the Aquarius.

For the record, though, I never stated that I wanted anything else besides an Escort 3-pack. You said there wasn't room for more escorts, though, so I came up with something that actually could fit in. All I did was think about it a little bit, something you didn't seem willing to do in your blind resistance to adding more Federation escorts.

Last edited by thratch1; 01-20-2013 at 07:09 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 38
01-20-2013, 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
Who was the first one to bring profanity and name-calling into this discussion? Hint: it wasn't me. I think a variation of "he who smelt it, delt it" is appropriate here. You're the one who decided to resort to base vulgarity over a simple discussion just because I said I don't care about KDF, and I think that says a lot more about you than it does about me.



Obviously, I didn't include any Fleet ships at all, since all Fleet ships are just suped-up versions of existing ships, and aren't really relevant.

The Chimera and Mobius are both classified as Escorts... but if you want to say they aren't escorts, then you're actually poking holes in your own argument about there not being gaps in the Escort line-up. I'm gonna leave that alone, though.



The Federation already has a "raider"... it just blows hard. The Aquarius makes many sacrifices that the BoPs make, just with none of the benefits. Cryptic needs to provide something substantially better if it's not going to buff the Aquarius.

For the record, though, I never stated that I wanted anything else besides an Escort 3-pack. You said there wasn't room for more escorts, though, so I came up with something that actually could fit in. All I did was think about it a little bit, something you didn't seem willing to do in your blind resistance to adding more Federation escorts.
*sigh*...

And this is why so many people weep for this generation... I throw him a bone and he spits in my face... why am I not surprised?

You say I am blindly against adding another escort? I say you are blindly FOR adding escorts. Your signature picture alone says that. As is, I feel sorry for you and your blind ignorance to other points of view, and hope you find some way to get over yourself sometime in the near future. Good luck!
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 955
# 39
01-20-2013, 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
*sigh*...

And this is why so many people weep for this generation... I throw him a bone and he spits in my face... why am I not surprised?

You say I am blindly against adding another escort? I say you are blindly FOR adding escorts. Your signature picture alone says that. As is, I feel sorry for you and your blind ignorance to other points of view, and hope you find some way to get over yourself sometime in the near future. Good luck!
You call saying,
Quote:
Profanity and name calling he says? Simple statement of fact say I.
throwing me a bone? You always insult people when you try to make nice? And you're weeping for "this generation" (note that you have no idea how old I am) based on, and I'm going to make this perfectly clear by setting it apart all on its own...

You engaging in a personal attack against me with name-calling and profanity, while I do not do the same.

Where I come from, name-calling and profanity is not a good thing. And a simple spirited debate on an internet forum is all it took to draw that out of you.

I feel sorry for you, and the people around you, if you think it's acceptable behavior to talk like that to anyone without sufficient provocation. And, again, a simple debate on an Internet forum is not sufficient provocation, since I never personally attacked you, nor used any profanity regarding your character.

Your point of view was "no more Fed escorts", a position you staunchly refused to let go of. Mine was, hey, maybe there is room! Maybe Cryptic can make something fun. Let's use our imaginations instead of saying, "Nope, no more new ships FOREVER!".

So who's really the stubborn, ignorant, immature one here?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,249
# 40
01-20-2013, 08:18 PM
I'm going to play the role of diplomat (inspiration: Captain Picard) here, since the last thing we need is a firefight in these forums.

Yes, Cryptic has been ignoring Escorts for a while. We can only hope that the next Escort to be released is a Mirror version (although Mirror ships are hardly anything to get excited about).

The Aquarius is the best attempt on the Starfleet side to build a ship equivalent to a Klingon Bird-of-Prey. But remember, the Klingons are an aggressive race, they are designing their ships with war in mind. Starfleet is a peacekeeping organization - although they do have muscle, their purpose is not to conquer. Therefore, you can't expect to demand Starfleet to change its entire outlook and build Defiant-of-Preys or Aquarius-of-Preys. That's not their nature.

I'd say the Aquarius should be able to match the BoP in tactical and damage potential ONLY. However, it's unique perk would be the ability to have improved maneuverability and durability on one condition: Other Aquarius escorts must be present and in range to buff the main player's Aquarius, and even in that case, only one Aquarius would get the improvement perk. The other Aquarius would be flying as normal.

It's a little complicated and even a little unfair, but it's a better proposal than adding an actual full-out escort (which breaks canon, game stability, and Gene Roddenberry's vision of the Federation Starfleet), or having the existing "escort stall" we're having now.

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