Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5
# 21
01-22-2013, 01:38 AM
that's exactly like pvp should be!
good old pvp days without all the usual crap nowadays!
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 404
# 22
01-22-2013, 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
What.... Are you serious?

You're joking right?

I mean seriously?

And the issue with the vet boffs I think is more of a "how do you police something that you can't see" issue then anything else.

But dude... Seriously!?
In case you missed the allusion:

That is exactly how I felt when last week when some...err...one made the same allegations regarding another tournament...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
And whoever claims that these rules favour some fleets: [...] If you have sound arguments why one should expect one extreme or the other, then please share them, so that they can be taken into account.
Aha. I like you Hilbert, but I wished you spoke up a week ago for this other... well, lets leave it at that...

Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some pew pew PVP action!

Last edited by ilhansk; 01-22-2013 at 02:25 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 366
# 23
01-22-2013, 02:30 AM
Rules looks cool, pretty much what I'm using in STO anyway (minus DOFFs, but I do have only those I got during leveling).

Shame I'm teamless PUGer so no tournaments for me
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,488
# 24
01-22-2013, 02:43 AM
Are you guys really trying to take shoots at the rules ? lol your guys are starting to become a bit of a joke.

Vet boffs ? seriously who cares. If someone honestly rounded themselves up 5 and choose to use them and sacrifice the allowed bonus from the eff doffs completely... let them its there dumb build. If they kept 2-3 of the effs and have 2-3 of the E boffs it will make zero difference.

What a stupid rule to complain about. lol
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 404
# 25
01-22-2013, 03:16 AM
Meant to be tongue-in-cheek and for you guys to think something about. Rules are fine. You guys go ahead

Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some pew pew PVP action!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 225
# 26
01-22-2013, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
I think maybe tricobalt torpedoes could be allowed back in. Or are there any known major problems with them?
i knew i liked u. amen bro bring trico back ill rock hegtha for special occasion if u do
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 23
# 27 Legen.....dary
01-22-2013, 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
What.... Are you serious?

You're joking right?

I mean seriously?

And the issue with the vet boffs I think is more of a "how do you police something that you can't see" issue then anything else.

But dude... Seriously!?


No, I'm not joking.

And 'policing stuff you can't see' is a good point. Pre-order items need left out, period. Vet Boffs also, but that's nearly impossible to enforce. But the statement should be made. You can't allow a presumption of non-enforceability to prevent you from trying to make Classic PvP fairer. Stacking 5 gives an advantage, all else equal, and they were not native to the early versions of the game.

I've played since the tail end of beta; those of you who came in F2P and don't remember the game before then would do fine to stay out of the discussion.


I didn't apologize for anything, by the way. I would never. I think you misunderstand the hierarchy of things in my Fleet, to which, there is none. I don't speak on behalf of or for the Fleet; if someone goes off and makes posts that haven't been discussed round-table style and you guys think that's the party line, shame on you, you'll believe anything it looks like...
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 638
# 28
01-22-2013, 05:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commandodan2001 View Post
Pre-order items need left out, period.
"period" is not a particularly strong argument. Maybe you could elaborate on why you want them excluded?

The Neodymium Deflector Dish will probably not see much use (and who has it anyway?) since there are deflectors with +Hull/Shields that are probably overall better than +8 Aux and crappy Mk I stats.
The Automated Defense Turret and the Light Phaser Satellite Turret are tactical consoles, which deters most players from slotting them. And they are fairly useless (unless the enemy is going for a tricobalt bomber strategy).
The Radiometric Converter - well, I personally know only one player (Kai) who owns that.
The Red Matter Capacitor is probably the strongest of the items. My first draft of the rules had this item as not allowed, but apparently the players who met for the rules discussion decided to change that (before I arrived late on TS). Perhaps one of them could explain what led to this decision?

Overall I think of the inclusion of the preorder items as a nod to the good old times. So far I can't really see any major balance implications, but maybe you can provide a different perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commandodan2001 View Post
Vet Boffs also, but that's nearly impossible to enforce.
I have already mentioned that I personally don't consider the Vet Boffs to be particularly powerful and still have unused vet doff requisition tokens because I never felt it necessary to build a full crew with them.
I think we are talking about something like +0.5% crth, +6% crtd, +2.5% acc for a full crew of 5. (Numbers are off the top of my head, please correct me if they are significantly off.) Considering the difficulties of having a full boff roster and moving boffs between characters on the same account to make room for plain boffs, I don't think that these are problematic enough to ban them. Are they even truly better than a full efficient crew?
Again, please elaborate if there is an aspect that I'm missing.

(And note that they still might get banned if it turns out that leadership is too powerful and hence human boffs would need to be removed altogether.)



Something else:
The big factor is the reputation system. Players who have T2/4 passives will be at a noticeable advantage over players who have not levelled their reputation. And since a classic tournament by design is also aimed at getting old players back into the game, this will put them at a disadvantage that is much bigger than anything from vet boffs or a rmc.
http://hilbertguide.com

Last edited by mancom; 01-22-2013 at 05:41 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 29
01-22-2013, 06:42 AM
The reason why the RMC was in is due to the fact it was an item you could get if you preordered the game back when the game was launched. So the pretense is that if you are going to allow other items like the radiometric converter etc, which was too released as a bonus item at the start of the game, then all items should be allowed. Else it wouldnt make sense or be fair.

Nevertheless good to see so many being active and responsive. By friday ill set a date and where people can sign up fleets or/and individual persons who might want to form a team if they got no fleet/part of a fleet
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,409
# 30
01-22-2013, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commandodan2001 View Post
No, I'm not joking.

And 'policing stuff you can't see' is a good point. Pre-order items need left out, period. Vet Boffs also, but that's nearly impossible to enforce. But the statement should be made. You can't allow a presumption of non-enforceability to prevent you from trying to make Classic PvP fairer. Stacking 5 gives an advantage, all else equal, and they were not native to the early versions of the game.

I've played since the tail end of beta; those of you who came in F2P and don't remember the game before then would do fine to stay out of the discussion.


I didn't apologize for anything, by the way. I would never. I think you misunderstand the hierarchy of things in my Fleet, to which, there is none. I don't speak on behalf of or for the Fleet; if someone goes off and makes posts that haven't been discussed round-table style and you guys think that's the party line, shame on you, you'll believe anything it looks like...
it was more the tone of the implications then anything else, also keep in mind this tourny is not being "endorsed" by crypitc like the failed one was.
im not personally holding anything against you or your fleet and think that since it was a cryptic "endorsed" event they should have taken a more active role in watching it.

but i digress.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post

The Neodymium Deflector Dish will probably not see much use (and who has it anyway?) since there are deflectors with +Hull/Shields that are probably overall better than +8 Aux and crappy Mk I stats.
The Automated Defense Turret and the Light Phaser Satellite Turret are tactical consoles, which deters most players from slotting them. And they are fairly useless (unless the enemy is going for a tricobalt bomber strategy).
The Radiometric Converter - well, I personally know only one player (Kai) who owns that.
The Red Matter Capacitor is probably the strongest of the items. My first draft of the rules had this item as not allowed, but apparently the players who met for the rules discussion decided to change that (before I arrived late on TS). Perhaps one of them could explain what led to this decision?

Overall I think of the inclusion of the preorder items as a nod to the good old times. So far I can't really see any major balance implications, but maybe you can provide a different perspective.


.
i have all those but the neodymium dish (stupid scy fy crap -_-)

the auto defense turret has always been handy on non tac builds. its also what has kept me alive (mostly) through the tric mine bombers attacks.

the radio metric converter i think has been broken since the maco set came out. it has not given me a single power proc since i got my maco shields. i dont know if maybe theres a "no power stacking" code or something but it needs to be fixed because i miss it.

the red matter capacitor.. well im indefferent on this. i can either make do with or without.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
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