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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 678
# 11
01-20-2013, 06:30 PM
Tested this out, and there actually *is* an issue with it.


Every other tick, the game 'forgets' that you've benefited from the doffs.

So it constantly cycles between +30% defense and +60% defense. (or at least the tooltip does).


Purchased 3 purples to test this out, and noticed some interesting things.

1. Pets in recall mode do nothing. Shield drones don't heal, fighters don't shoot. They just take up space.

2. While I did notice that enemies in pvp missed more often, these doffs did not make me 'invincible' as claimed by the OP. Enemies can and did still hit me, even NPCs, and the loss of ability taken up by the three doff slots was, IMO, greater than the gain of that extra defense.

And just for the record, I did my best to run the tests as a maximum effectiveness- I used an alien tactical officer with elusive, Aegies 2 part (engines and deflector), so I was seeing a 'bonus defense score' total of aroun 110 (which fluctuated between 110 and 140 every other second due to the aformentioned bug)


This sounds like a giant amount of defense, but in testing it was virtually worthless.

These doffs are not broken in the sense that they're overpowered. They're broken in the sense that there is actually an issue with how the game calculates and applies their bonus.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,997
# 12
01-20-2013, 08:51 PM
Well, maybe the people I was playing against were just very bad at hitting - but still, any other flight control doff's bonus can be negated by destroying the pets. Why not this one?

You don't even need to have any pets out for this to work.#


Edit: Of course, when testing, it will matter a lot if you go up vs people with or without [acc]x3 weapons. That might explain the different experiences.
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Last edited by sophlogimo; 01-20-2013 at 09:08 PM.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,441
# 13
01-20-2013, 09:44 PM
Personally, when I think of these Doffs, I think of the Vor'quv with 2x Bro'loth BoP pets.. Because they can cloak while on Passive. And You can use them in cloak and try to get them in a position to set them to attack and give a pretty nasty Alpha strike..

I suppose on the Armatige it has a use but like it has been mentioned, there are better options out there then this. Same for the Vesta. And the Kar'fi.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 225
# 14
01-21-2013, 04:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Well, maybe the people I was playing against were just very bad at hitting - but still, any other flight control doff's bonus can be negated by destroying the pets. Why not this one?

You don't even need to have any pets out for this to work.#


Edit: Of course, when testing, it will matter a lot if you go up vs people with or without [acc]x3 weapons. That might explain the different experiences.
not to mention the 87 other things factoring into defense (fear my tractor beam)
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,080
# 15
01-21-2013, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illcadia View Post
1. Pets in recall mode do nothing. Shield drones don't heal, fighters don't shoot. They just take up space.
So it's kind of like how they "work" in Escort mode most of the time as well? They're just as likely to sit at the spot you launched them in space than do anything else...meh.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
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Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,137
# 16
01-22-2013, 09:10 AM
The "stat flipping" is a stacking error that has been fixed internally. Basically, the buff refreshes every 1sec, but has a duration of 1.5sec to allow for server/client latency, but is currently (on Holodeck) set to allow the buff to stack. The result is that for half the duration, it's on you twice. We've removed the buff's ability to stack with itself, and so the bonus Defense will no longer fluctuate.

Having multiple FDOs equipped will still result in a stacking benefit.

I honestly like the idea of linking the Defense bonus directly to the number of active hangar pets you have in play, but without prototyping anything out I'm honestly not certain how to make it work. It may also introduce an imbalance between players that prefer to use Frigate-type pets (like Birds of Prey and such) which launch far fewer pets than a standard wing of fighters. I'll look into it, though.
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,526
# 17
01-22-2013, 09:45 AM
isnt a few doffs giving potentially+30 defense on top of everything absurd though? i'll answer, yes it is!
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 18
01-22-2013, 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I wasn't saying it wasn't a powerful doff option... I am simply pointing out that...

It costs you ALL your hanger dmg....

It costs you 3 of your 5 doff slots....

for 30 more defense... on the escort that is LEAST likely to be doing any real dmg on its own.

Or a carrier that has such bad inertia that it is one of the few ships in the game that will never get to defense cap and will have to dip into the low low end of the defense spectrem to even make a proper turn.

Considering that... and all the other broken options a player could choose for there carrier. I'll take someone trying to survive this way any day.

Its not that doing this is a terrible way to go as Mai says you can run shield drones for a bit more heal anyway... its just that to me it sounds very much like something Sophie would run.... the type of ship that can be completely ignored because they have sacrificed ALL there offense to live 10s longer.
As someone who runs a smiliar build to evasion tank in ESTFs on an Armitage, I can attest to the fact that it's not as powerful as folks thinks. You're still getting hit, you're still taking damage, but you've sacrificed any hangar utility for RNG armor that (to be entirely honest) isn't worth much at all when you get double torpedo tapped by a tac or gate, or eat a full torp spread from donatra.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 19
01-22-2013, 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
The "stat flipping" is a stacking error that has been fixed internally. Basically, the buff refreshes every 1sec, but has a duration of 1.5sec to allow for server/client latency, but is currently (on Holodeck) set to allow the buff to stack. The result is that for half the duration, it's on you twice. We've removed the buff's ability to stack with itself, and so the bonus Defense will no longer fluctuate.

Having multiple FDOs equipped will still result in a stacking benefit.

I honestly like the idea of linking the Defense bonus directly to the number of active hangar pets you have in play, but without prototyping anything out I'm honestly not certain how to make it work. It may also introduce an imbalance between players that prefer to use Frigate-type pets (like Birds of Prey and such) which launch far fewer pets than a standard wing of fighters. I'll look into it, though.
Hi Bort!

IDK how others would feel about the fairness of this, but I think the frigates having a lower obtainable bonus defense might be balanced by their toughness. Having a super high defense bonus because you have multiple scorpion fighters out doesn't do much good when they're so easy to kill. So the lower bonus would end up being easier to maintain, ya dig?

On a related note, since we have you, is there any news on improved AI for pets? I was really excited about that because I hoped you could build on it for NPCs in general.

On an unrelated note, what's up with the ID description?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,528
# 20
01-22-2013, 10:57 AM
The hard to swallow part is that the pets themselves with the proper doffs gives a defense bonus other than that the way they were nerfed their projectiles are the only damage that is worth using them since their energy damage was nerfed so much.
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