Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,545
# 21
01-23-2013, 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
*snip*
You want a science vessel that does damage? RSV is your ship. FRSV is if you really want a party.

Tier 5 Science Vessel
Hull: 29700
Shield mod: 1.43
Weapons: 3/3
Crew: 350
Device Slots: 3
Turn Rate: 13
Consoles: 4 tac/2 eng/4 sci

BOff Layout:
Cmdr Sci
LtCmdr Sci
Lt Tac
Ensign Tac
Lt Engi

+15 aux, SST.

What more could you want?
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 22
01-23-2013, 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
Argh. Holy Trinity BAD Mkay?
I agree.

Quote:
We do not need missions that 'require' a tank. We need cruisers and sci vessels to become more effective at killing things. [...]
The problem here is: Why do we even have different ship classes if they all do the same anyway, which is, killing stuff?


Now, if each class was best at defeating a different class of targets... that might work.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 395
# 23
01-23-2013, 04:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
You want a science vessel that does damage? RSV is your ship. FRSV is if you really want a party.

Tier 5 Science Vessel
Hull: 29700
Shield mod: 1.43
Weapons: 3/3
Crew: 350
Device Slots: 3
Turn Rate: 13
Consoles: 4 tac/2 eng/4 sci

BOff Layout:
Cmdr Sci
LtCmdr Sci
Lt Tac
Ensign Tac
Lt Engi

+15 aux, SST.

What more could you want?

a science vessel should buff/debuff before doing damage (however my wells has 5000+ dps using a build bof buff/debuff first of all)...
that ship has just one tactical console more, that help (but you pay in resistance/tanking) becouse of 1 engineering console less), but does not mean that the wells isn't really a science vessel and can't have dps.

Last edited by eurialo; 01-23-2013 at 04:32 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,904
# 24
01-23-2013, 06:17 AM
If that is so, I have to ask:

Why do I mainly see cruisers out there?

Don't get me wrong, DPS is fine and all... But there are clearly people out there with cruiser builds they feel are really good for what they do.
My name may say "PWE member", but I will never be.
-NEVER Forget the Screwups and ignorance made towards the people who supported the game through 2011
Don't look silly, don't call it "Zen-Store" - Don't waste devs time, Post proper bug-reports
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 25
01-23-2013, 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anazonda View Post
If that is so, I have to ask:

Why do I mainly see cruisers out there?

Don't get me wrong, DPS is fine and all... But there are clearly people out there with cruiser builds they feel are really good for what they do.
Here's my guess: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool

In other words, I believe many people prefer a cool Star Trek ship over a WW2 fighter plane that poses as a Star Trek ship, even when they feel the cool ship is less capable.

Selecting a ship primarily out of aesthetics isn't something the game at large punishes... except for the Elite STF's, you can get by with any ship practically anywhere. You will be a lot faster with an escort, though.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 701
# 26
01-23-2013, 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
I agree.



The problem here is: Why do we even have different ship classes if they all do the same anyway, which is, killing stuff?


Now, if each class was best at defeating a different class of targets... that might work.
Because, for better or worse, most of the content in this game is designed to be solo-able; and the objectives are pretty much the same regardless of your career path or ship ('kill x enemy squadrons', and such like). Changing that would require redoing every mission in the game that isn't an STF or Fleet Action; so that won't be happening.

The result of this is that every type of ship needs to be equally capable, since every type of ship faces equal challenges; but they aren't.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,916
# 27
01-23-2013, 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnmanx View Post
[...]
The result of this is that every type of ship needs to be equally capable, since every type of ship faces equal challenges; but they aren't.
So you would try to distinguish the classes not by the type of enemy or time to kill, but by the way how they kill?

Hm, what could the types be: Escorts doing cannon burst damage (more than one burst needed to kill anything), Cruisers doing constant beam pressure damage, Sci ships doing sci ship technobabble damage?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,825
# 28
01-23-2013, 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodwhity View Post
Can't do more damage than 5k DPS with your Eng-Cruiser?

You are flying it wrong.
Why settle for 5k DPS when you can do 8-10 in an escort instead? The faster you kill, the faster you get the loots and the more loots you gets per hour.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 363
# 29
01-23-2013, 07:47 AM
DPSed based game means ships buold around DPS will be best. Rule of cool is another thing: I to preffer cruisers and sci-ships over Spitfires or Wurgers of Star Trek (aka escorts).

Quote:
Hm, what could the types be: Escorts doing cannon burst damage (more than one burst needed to kill anything), Cruisers doing constant beam pressure damage, Sci ships doing sci ship technobabble damage?
It wont work in DPS centered game. Constant damage sounds reasonable for PvP only. In PvE there is no reason for constant pressure as your targets are not healing, don't have support, CC etc. Constant pressure dealers suffer in terms of time needed to kill something. And that places them far below burst damage dealers when it comes to PvE. Sure, can do all the mission in all ship types, ESTF too. It does not change the fact that escorts are the best choice for all the missions.

The difference in the ships should be general behavior of ships and play style: slow fortress with lot of damage and survivability vs fast zoom and boom with lots of damage and speed defenses vs something in between. Cruiser, escort, sci-ship.

Either that or fix AI and make the PvE enemies intelligent and using BOFF power, healing etc. This would both mitigate the importance of escort DPS and bring CC/debuff into play, as well as the need for pressure damage to mitigate AI healing and the healing for players in prolonged battles.

I wont count on AI changes. On the other hand you can say that the "bring DPS to other ship types" is implemented in a way via lockbox, C-Store ships and pet spam (DHC/fast turning cruisers, sci carriers etc) but this way of implementation only makes this game worse as those things are not easily available for anyone and are limiting the game experience. Forcing to use one or two specific playstyle. In a twisted way Cryptic implemented new "trinity" setup for PvE with lockbox/C-Store:

- spam
- DHC cruiser
- tac in escort
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 701
# 30
01-23-2013, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
So you would try to distinguish the classes not by the type of enemy or time to kill, but by the way how they kill?

Hm, what could the types be: Escorts doing cannon burst damage (more than one burst needed to kill anything), Cruisers doing constant beam pressure damage, Sci ships doing sci ship technobabble damage?
More or less. That's pretty much how the system was designed; but runaway resists have made beams a little obsolete, and sci powers have been nerfed into oblivion (or resists against them have been over-buffed: one or the other).
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Exploration suggestions thread - give it a read
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