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# 11
01-23-2013, 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blznfun View Post
ACCx3 gives both Crth and CrtD when you overcome their defense. I am not sure of the math involved but having a completely stopped target means negative defense (-15 if I am correct) which makes this even more possible. Not only is ACCx3 a more appropriate choice, especially for someone that has high defense, but because of the aforementioned. Now I am speaking from a PvP standpoint strictly. Unless you have some way of constantly holding your target or your target is big and slow, I woudn't use CrtH or CrtD.

ACCx3 especially with acc as a passive on your toon as well as a host of other stuff that adds to the targeting skills makes for almost a 85% (Give or take 5-10%) hit rate while fighting a high defense target according to Advanced Combat Tracker. Couple this with an all Veteran Boff Loadout that has the "Space Warfare Specialist" passive which gives +5 to all these for each vet boff: maneuvers, targeting systems, energy and projectile weapons specialization, it makes for deadly accuracy. Put on the omega deflector at that gives +16.2 to targeting systems. Add the Omega engines and spec out your flow caps, and you now have tetyron glider which helps drain shields from those stubborn targets (Best to use the tetryon weapons that give the phaser proc as well) an you are all set...

With the above mentioned setup (2 piece Omega, 5 vet boffs, Accurate Passive, Tachokinetic Console, Zero Point Console and Borg Assimilated Module), the skill, 4 DHC and 3 Turrets, I can almost maintain 90-95% hit rate on most target.

Add a tractor beam, and nothing but crit...
Accx3 is extremely overrated. Yes it gives you overflow crth and crtd. NO it is no where near equal. Even if you manage to gets someone into negative defense. (which is pretty much impossible these days vs a non noob)... even then you would be lucky to get an extra 1-2% of crth... and perhaps 10-20% of crtd.... ACC is no replacement for the real thing.

Stick with your CRTHx3... they do far more dmg then CRTD... which imo is still a pretty much useless stat.

Mostly these days I run... [acc] [crth]x2... as when you DO crit your sevarity will be effected by Acc/Def ratings... you get a pretty good natural ACC with full spec and Acc captain trait... having the extra 20 from accx3... IS NOT worth the lose of 4% crit hit. basicly with one ACC mod and proper spec you will land hits so that won't be an issue... and the overage difference +20 will give you would in an absolute best scenario might be an extra .75% or so.

CRTD... last I tested it is pretty much junk... what it does is provid 10% stronger crits (overall)... as the 20% in provides is 20% of the CRITICAL dmg. Meaning if you where to land a perfect 1000... if it crit it would be 1500... if you have CRTDx3 it would be 1800... that is hardly worth the trade in crit... or acc.
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# 12
01-23-2013, 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
For a high pressure damage build I agree, but opportunistic debuff/spike builds critH or critD are better imo.

There are so many repairs and resists in game now, imo, timing a Debuff like TB and Alpha will get high hits and at that point it's a matter of Weapon type if CritD or CritH is better. I'd say CritD is probably better for DCHs if you (or team) has a means of debuffing a target's defense and are smart about it.
I agree to a point, but then again I have never used tractors in my build to stop targets. I always end up with a higher crit or damage chance but my actual damage seems to go down according to ACT because of the miss factor. Maybe I am missing something here, but I have been using the same version of this build since open beta and I have a pretty nice success rate with it. If I am fighting someone that I want to go down and I have the right assistance, it works wonders. But then again you can't go at a skilled team alone anyways. It doesn't matter what you have as some like to think...

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# 13
01-23-2013, 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Accx3 is extremely overrated. Yes it gives you overflow crth and crtd. NO it is no where near equal. Even if you manage to gets someone into negative defense. (which is pretty much impossible these days vs a non noob)... even then you would be lucky to get an extra 1-2% of crth... and perhaps 10-20% of crtd.... ACC is no replacement for the real thing.

Stick with your CRTHx3... they do far more dmg then CRTD... which imo is still a pretty much useless stat.

Mostly these days I run... [acc] [crth]x2... as when you DO crit your sevarity will be effected by Acc/Def ratings... you get a pretty good natural ACC with full spec and Acc captain trait... having the extra 20 from accx3... IS NOT worth the lose of 4% crit hit. basicly with one ACC mod and proper spec you will land hits so that won't be an issue... and the overage difference +20 will give you would in an absolute best scenario might be an extra .75% or so.

CRTD... last I tested it is pretty much junk... what it does is provid 10% stronger crits (overall)... as the 20% in provides is 20% of the CRITICAL dmg. Meaning if you where to land a perfect 1000... if it crit it would be 1500... if you have CRTDx3 it would be 1800... that is hardly worth the trade in crit... or acc.
How are you tracking these stats? By visual acuity or with a combat log parser? I noticed a huge difference in the amount of crit chance from PvE to PvP (obviously) and I have also noticed via a combat log parser that having the Hx3 only gains a 1-1.5% (sometimes slightly more) increase in MOST circumstances because of the human factor. And its obvious that you crit higher damage once shields are gone... YOu still crit a lot with shields up but the crits are much smaller unless using a BO3 or HY3 to try to melt shields.

I stand by ACCx3 or Accx2 [h or d] if you have the accurate passive. But going to an all Hx3 or Dx3 i feel looses too much. You're just hoping for that hit and that it crits massively (unless they have a really low defense rating). Dx3 would be the worst choice of the two though if that was all I had to choose from...

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Last edited by blznfun; 01-23-2013 at 09:07 PM.
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# 14
01-23-2013, 09:06 PM
To put it another way for you... consider this.

You are running 4 DHC and you want them to crit and land and kill some one....

Lets assume you are a tac with an 8% crit rate most of the time. (I know you can get crit up and around 20%... lets go with 8% as a good avg number not counting weapons).

For every 4 shots (one volley of DHC)...
Your would have a 28.36% chance that ONE of the 4 would crit.

Now assuming you had crthx2 weaponry... your crit chance goes up to 12%....
You now have a 40.03% chance that ONE of your 4 would crit.

If you go a bit further and say I can on average get 2 rounds of fire off when I get someone lined up...
That means with the base weapons you would have a 48.68% chance to land at least one crit in there.

If you have Crthx2 you have a 65% chance to land a crit. Thats over 15% higher chance every time your weapons cycle TWICE... average that over a match and you will find that CRTH is the clear winner.

I calculated this with CRTH for one reason... People are going to tell you "ya ya what good is crth if you miss" well parse it and see... spec right have acc trait and run one acc mod and your hit rate will be with in 2% of ACCx3 weapons... and I can tell you the way the game works those 2% hit shots... where at times when your opponent had such high defesne that even the accx3 shooter is NOT getting any crits and for sure not killing anyone.
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# 15
01-23-2013, 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blznfun View Post
How are you tracking these stats? By visual acuity or with a combat log parser? I noticed a huge difference in the amount of crit chance from PvE to PvP (obviously) and I have also noticed via a combat log parser that having the Hx3 only gains a 1-1.5% (sometimes slightly more) increase in MOST circumstances because of the human factor. And its obvious that you crit higher damage once shields are gone... YOu still crit a lot with shields up but the crits are much smaller unless using a BO3 or HY3 to try to melt shields.

I stand by ACCx3 or Accx2 [h or d] if you have the accurate passive. But going to an all Hx3 or Dx3 i feel looses too much. You're just hoping for that hit and that it crits massively. Dx3 would be the worst choice of the two though if that was all I had to choose from...
Have you parsed it ? even with out ACC at all on the weapons Misses aren't near as common as some people seem to think.

Also consider this... people are stupid. lmao

I kid but I'm serious... people spend WAY to much time shooting at the wrong target at times. I have been in matches and watched VERY good players ignore a sci ship stuck in some cruisers warp spew.... cause they have the escort down to 20%. (who now has got omega and evasive up)... if they are seeing misses in that case its because they are plain out to stupid to switch targets for 10s. In that case even ACCx3 isn't likely going to finish that escort until his defense buffs run out.
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# 16
01-23-2013, 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
To put it another way for you... consider this.

You are running 4 DHC and you want them to crit and land and kill some one....

Lets assume you are a tac with an 8% crit rate most of the time. (I know you can get crit up and around 20%... lets go with 8% as a good avg number not counting weapons).

For every 4 shots (one volley of DHC)...
Your would have a 28.36% chance that ONE of the 4 would crit.

Now assuming you had crthx2 weaponry... your crit chance goes up to 12%....
You now have a 40.03% chance that ONE of your 4 would crit.

If you go a bit further and say I can on average get 2 rounds of fire off when I get someone lined up...
That means with the base weapons you would have a 48.68% chance to land at least one crit in there.

If you have Crthx2 you have a 65% chance to land a crit. Thats over 15% higher chance every time your weapons cycle TWICE... average that over a match and you will find that CRTH is the clear winner.

I calculated this with CRTH for one reason... People are going to tell you "ya ya what good is crth if you miss" well parse it and see... spec right have acc trait and run one acc mod and your hit rate will be with in 2% of ACCx3 weapons... and I can tell you the way the game works those 2% hit shots... where at times when your opponent had such high defesne that even the accx3 shooter is NOT getting any crits and for sure not killing anyone.
Well I have found a well timed attack against even the most skilled player will net you a kill regardless of what tags you have on the weapon. What I am saying is it all comes down to timing. You could have all the crit h and crit d or acc available in the game and it still wouldn't be enough if you don't time that attack. A high crit chance might yield you a faster kill under the same timing but only by fractions of a second... Its all what you want to brag about in the end, whether you did more crit or more damage...

Personally I would rather take down a skilled opponent with the least amount of crit or damage... Now that says something. What I am saying, is numbers by themselves don't mean a thing. Alot of people go "Look at that damage" or "Look at that healing" or "Look at that crit damage and chance" but have no kills and bunch of deaths. If all that damage or other numbers by themselves didn't do a world of good, its time to rethink the build.

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Last edited by blznfun; 01-23-2013 at 09:13 PM.
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# 17
01-23-2013, 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blznfun View Post
Well I have found a well timed attack against even the most skilled player will net you a kill regardless of what tags you have on the weapon. What I am saying is it all comes down to timing. You could have all the crit h and crit d or acc available in the game and it still wouldn't be enough if you don't time that attack. A high crit chance might yield you a faster kill under the same timing but only by fractions of a second... Its all what you want to brag about in the end, whether you did more crit or more damage...
I brag about more KILLS... and thats what crit does for you. Your right of course piloting and smart play will get you that... but having a smart build is also part of it... having burst potential is key... and yes I believe that crth is much more bursty then acc... I am not saying ACC is bad... just that ACCx3 is way overrated.

Yes I see plenty of accx3 escorts running around all proud of there 1 mil in dmg in a match... what numbers like that really tell me is they have a horrible build. If you can't kill someone in under 60k worth of dmg in an escort your doing it terribly wrong. imo
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# 18
01-23-2013, 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I brag about more KILLS... and thats what crit does for you. Your right of course piloting and smart play will get you that... but having a smart build is also part of it... having burst potential is key... and yes I believe that crth is much more bursty then acc... I am not saying ACC is bad... just that ACCx3 is way overrated.

Yes I see plenty of accx3 escorts running around all proud of there 1 mil in dmg in a match... what numbers like that really tell me is they have a horrible build. If you can't kill someone in under 60k worth of dmg in an escort your doing it terribly wrong. imo
Well personally, I disagree with you. While I agree crits help, they are not the only deciding factor which is what you seem to be making them out to be. Have I mis-interpreted this?

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# 19
01-23-2013, 09:19 PM
And what this discussion boils down to is play style, personal preference. No one way is better than the other. I just would rather make sure I hit my target than to rely on the "chance" to hit and then try to top that off with the "chance" to do massive amounts of crits with damage. In a team setting spamming holds and defense/damage debuffs, I can see the advantage of it, but still, I like to know I am hitting my target and getting the good damage and fair crits than that chance to miss it and my kill...

If your a gambling type person then yes, Hx3 makes more sense.

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# 20
01-23-2013, 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blznfun View Post
Well personally, I disagree with you. While I agree crits help, they are not the only deciding factor which is what you seem to be making them out to be. Have I mis-interpreted this?
With healing the way it is right now 9 times out of 10 yes it is a crit string that will kill someone. People don't die in this game with out being the victim of crits unless they really really mess up... are afk... or have been playing for a month.

No I am not saying gear is all important .... frankly I could likely beat most people in this game with green weapons... even considering the dmg buff to purples. Skill trumps gear as always... however if you are selecting the best gear in a min max setup... yes I am saying Critical chance for a tactical is the most important stat you can have. In most MMOs you don't get the crazy number of Swings we get in STO... think about it in many MMOs you see 50-70& crit chances pretty standard... STO you don't you see 10-20% out of a tac... however we get to take 4-20 swings within a 5-10s window... and at that point yes the laws of probability clearly tell us that the tac with 20% crit rate is going to land 8-12 crits out of 20 swings... and the tac that has 10% (and sometimes 12% if the stars align and they get a fat Defense/ACC split) is only going to land 3-6 crits. Even if I stipulated that 20% of the guys shots would miss with out an ACC mod. (which I don't because it would be more like 1 in 20 would miss)... the answer is clear... the guy with close to double the crit rate is going to KILL someone the way the game is right now... and the guy with out is going to watch his target scoot away and heal up.

Oh my sorry for the wall of text. lol
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