Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 407
# 21
01-24-2013, 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
I have to admit that i play more farming missions than story-based episodes, just because i'm in a very small fed fleet and because we need fleetmarks. At least i have the decency not to give any tips or rates. Please also consider something: story-based content isn't repetable. Once you've played it you're done with it. I guess i could play more of these missions, but i enjoy a lot more creating one than playing one.
You can replay story-based content (story-missions and also story-missions from the foundry), you just don't want to redo the whole stories again and again.

Just because a mission hasn't got a huge background-story doesn't mean that it doesn't require much testing and balancing. A stupid Boff-grinder can also be balanced, so that you can test your Boffs: Have they got good gear, have they got a good mix of abilites/traits?

My "Rumble"-Mission didn't need experimental game-mechanics, it's quite stupid, but that doesn't mean that it required no thinking and testing to get things working the way I wanted them to. I'd be also happy about a fair amount of tips.

We are discussing the way how players should be rewarded for doing foundry-missions, but what is about the way we should be rewarded for creating Foundry-Missions? We can't ask Cryptic to give us 10 Dilithium-Ore per run on a Mission, if we want to get stupid grind-/minimum-missions out of the lists.

A reward (for the author) based on type and average time would be fair. Maybe per run:
100 Dilithium-Ore for storyline-missions (avg. time 20 to 30 minutes),
10 Dilithium-Ore for "Rumbles" (avg. time 20 to 30 minutes) and
1 Dilithium-Ore for self-completing Boff-grinders (with avg. time up to 20 minutes - this would require just a semi-automated test from Cryptic).
First one half of the so called Community complains: "Give us instant access to all veteran rewards, for going lifetime.", then the other half of the same Community complains: "I've earned 1000 Day membership, I want a special reward.".
Stop complaining, if it is enough for you, you could have the "Captains Table" for the real veterans, I don't want access to another dead social zone...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 22
01-24-2013, 06:06 AM
The farm missions are the most boring things I've ever had the misfortune to try.

There needs to be a way to divide the missions by type. That would allow everyone to look for what they want.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 23
01-24-2013, 06:26 AM
I play grinders a lot, because there are times I want to read a story, and there are times I have kids screaming in the background and doing some content that is easily interrupted and requires 0 thought is just my speed.

But I don't want grinders to drown story -- when I actually have time to sit down and enjoy a good story mission, I am very happy.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 24
01-24-2013, 06:41 AM
Investigate Officer Reports is still the most efficient source of fleet marks. I am the only active member in my fleet, and I WILL have that Fleet Defiant. I'm not bailing on all that work to join a large fleet, and I'm not dealing with having to lock down my fleet bank and babysit new members. So, as long as the fleet base economy remains in its current state, I will repeat the shortest, simplest foundry missions I can find. Tough noogies.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 407
# 25
01-24-2013, 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanover2 View Post
Investigate Officer Reports is still the most efficient source of fleet marks. I am the only active member in my fleet, and I WILL have that Fleet Defiant. I'm not bailing on all that work to join a large fleet, and I'm not dealing with having to lock down my fleet bank and babysit new members. So, as long as the fleet base economy remains in its current state, I will repeat the shortest, simplest foundry missions I can find. Tough noogies.
Well, then you'll fail. The simplest, shortest and easiest Foundry-Mission will NEVER qualify for the IOR. You might have wanted to say, you will do those BOFF-grinders a lot, but do you want to reward those authors more then those, who actually try to give you a challenge (I don't say reading and thinking is not a challenge, but a Rumble - a combat-scenario can be also a challenge)?
First one half of the so called Community complains: "Give us instant access to all veteran rewards, for going lifetime.", then the other half of the same Community complains: "I've earned 1000 Day membership, I want a special reward.".
Stop complaining, if it is enough for you, you could have the "Captains Table" for the real veterans, I don't want access to another dead social zone...
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 314
# 26
01-24-2013, 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainhunter1 View Post
Maybe then folks will say, "You know, I actually enjoyed the last two hours 'grinding' this mission - what a great story!"
This is perhaps the biggest flaw with the storyline missions in the Foundry right now. I love storyline missions; they are the primary reason I play any game.

However, my playtime is often limited, so when I see "estimated playtime 2-3 hours" I often avoid those missions. I can't guarantee that much time in a single sitting.

Now, a mission *arc* that takes two or three hours is great! But a single mission, not so much. There's a reason why even the better storyline missions in dev content are broken up into 30-60 minute episodes. It gives players far more freedom in how they consume the content (one large block of time to play the whole arc or breaking the story into smaller chunks as time allows).

I've played a number of Foundry missions where the author treats it like a novel and tries to cram in a ton of backstory with a lot of narrative in multiple screens of scrolling text. The problem is, while that level of backstory may work in a novel, it's usually interspersed throughout a given book instead of handed to the reader all at once. In Foundry missions, we don't have that luxury, so it gets shoveled at the player in one huge gulp. This can bog down the story even for those of use who want indepth storylines.

Why? Because story players want to be engaged. They want to *participate* in the story, not just read it. MMO stories need to engage the player with *both* text and activity. A lot of text does not in itself make a good story in a game. It's a combination of text and activities (not just fighting) that does the trick.

The players need to feel like they are an integral part of the story, not just a spectator.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 314
# 27
01-24-2013, 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Please also consider something: story-based content isn't repetable. Once you've played it you're done with it.
Why? I repeat more story missions than so-called "repeatable" missions all the time. They're more immersive and fun than just running around blowing stuff up (although that can be fun on occasion as well; depends on time and mood ).

Slapping the term "repeatable" on a grindy, light content mission does not make it so. That's just PR and marketing.

New Romulus is touted as an "Adventure Zone" with repeatable content. You know what? When I played those missions, I played them. They were done. From a content standpoint there is nothing to differentiate them from "one and done" missions -- except perhaps the reward structure. The same is true for all the dailies. I've played them. They're pretty much like all other missions. There is no content reason to do them more than once, any more than the deeper storyline missions. It's just the reward that is attached to them that is different.

If they would attach dilithium and marks to the main storyline missions, I think they would see a lot more play. But then, that's probably what they're afraid of.

Currently, I do play some of the dailies and New Romulus, just like I include exploration missions and so forth in the mix. Variety is good and these are good change of pace activities. But they don't hold up as primary content.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,760
# 28
01-24-2013, 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
I do have to say one more thing. It takes me an extraordinary amount of time to make my missions. In fact, I doubt there are many other authors who have devoted as much time to any specific mission as I have.

I want to make it clear that this isn't about ego or anything like that, but simply a matter of logic. To justify the time I spend, I feel I absolutely need to get at least five hundred plays on my missions-- and that's borderline, at least a thousand would be better.

I do enjoy making my missions, but the fact is, I'm not getting paid for it, and I'm not getting any notoriety in real life or anything like that. There are other creative pursuits I can devote my time to, which arguably would be more worthwhile. So, just as a simple matter of fact, if the grinders dominating the list mean my next mission struggles to get plays, I will have to seriously reconsider whether I should devote any more time to the Foundry.
Thats the thing, when we had clickies the clickies took so very little of the players time so you could still enjoy a proper foundry mission but grinders take more time .
Play more STO Foundry! (You can thank me later.)

A TIME TO SEARCH: ENTER MY FOUNDRY MISSION at the RISA SYSTEM in the SIRIUS SECTOR
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 314
# 29
01-24-2013, 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagorak View Post
I do have to say one more thing. It takes me an extraordinary amount of time to make my missions. In fact, I doubt there are many other authors who have devoted as much time to any specific mission as I have.

I want to make it clear that this isn't about ego or anything like that, but simply a matter of logic. To justify the time I spend, I feel I absolutely need to get at least five hundred plays on my missions-- and that's borderline, at least a thousand would be better.

I do enjoy making my missions, but the fact is, I'm not getting paid for it, and I'm not getting any notoriety in real life or anything like that. There are other creative pursuits I can devote my time to, which arguably would be more worthwhile. So, just as a simple matter of fact, if the grinders dominating the list mean my next mission struggles to get plays, I will have to seriously reconsider whether I should devote any more time to the Foundry.
I guess it's a matter of perspective and why you develop the missions. When I wrote missions for the Mission Architect in CoH, I never received a lot of reviews compared to the major authors. This was in part because I didn't advertise them on the forums, nor was I a part of an Architect site or group.

For the most part, I wrote content I wanted to play, often with my wife and daughter. Family and friends played my missions quite often (but of course could only rate once). If others played and enjoyed them, that was icing on the cake.

The same will be true when I take the plunge Foundry authoring, except that I will most likely participate more in the forums. The toolset is more complex, so tips and tricks will be appreciated, and the storytelling capability in Foundry far outstrips the MA. Feedback will be welcome.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 30
01-24-2013, 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by torsten1009 View Post
Well, then you'll fail. The simplest, shortest and easiest Foundry-Mission will NEVER qualify for the IOR.

Thanks, but I know full well which ones qualify. I've been doing this a long time.


Quote:
You might have wanted to say, you will do those BOFF-grinders a lot, but do you want to reward those authors more then those, who actually try to give you a challenge (I don't say reading and thinking is not a challenge, but a Rumble - a combat-scenario can be also a challenge)?
My present "challenge" is the coveted Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit, and I will grind whatever most efficiently serves that goal. If you want me to play the foundry missions that take more time and effort, I'll require extra fleet mark rewards in proportion to the time. Divide them into 20/40/60 minute categories, and give 50/75/100 marks as rewards. Something like that.
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