Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,584
# 111
01-24-2013, 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
No way. Ships should have tanking OR dps, but not both.
Then beams should be competitive to cannons on Escorts, no?
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 112
01-24-2013, 07:50 AM
There is that paradax in STO. Escorts tank almost as well as cruisers, yet cruisers have nowehere the dmg of escorts. Various hybrids make the gap even wider. And I'm not even talking about 5 tac consoles vs 2 tac consoles ships.
Ensign
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6
# 113
01-24-2013, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
/Team Target [Noob]: Fleet Maneuver Gamma, SNB, VM
[zone]: LMAO
/NOOB has survived.

NOOB - USS I HAZ RSP!
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 56
# 114
01-24-2013, 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
There is that paradax in STO. Escorts tank almost as well as cruisers, yet cruisers have nowehere the dmg of escorts. Various hybrids make the gap even wider. And I'm not even talking about 5 tac consoles vs 2 tac consoles ships.
I agree, cruiser should have at least significant higher hitpoints than escorts. It's hard to argue against that, if you consider that escorts like the fleet defiant or the JHAS have over 3/4 the hp of a cruiser that is basically 10 times larger then them...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 891
# 115
01-24-2013, 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalnar83 View Post
There is that paradax in STO. Escorts tank almost as well as cruisers, yet cruisers have nowehere the dmg of escorts. Various hybrids make the gap even wider. And I'm not even talking about 5 tac consoles vs 2 tac consoles ships.
Until you get a tractor on them or disable an engine, and then the escort burns and the cruiser keeps on trucking.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 116
01-24-2013, 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
Until you get a tractor on them or disable an engine, and then the escort burns and the cruiser keeps on trucking.
But that works both ways, and thanks to inertia, it takes cruisers much longer time to get to full speed, hence he suffers the defence penalty longer. And most cruisers have no APO, even if you PH the tractor, your speed already suffered.

I understand balancing stuff is harder, but I get the feeling Cryptic is trying to put a square peg to a round hole, and it does not work. I hated cruisers online, but I start to hate tac/escort online even more.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,584
# 117
01-24-2013, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xantris View Post
Until you get a tractor on them or disable an engine, and then the escort burns and the cruiser keeps on trucking.
If there was a significant difference...this would be the case. To an extent, that's what folks are asking for, no?

Look at the damage being done. VM/SNB that Cruiser. How much longer is it going to live compared to the Escort? I mean...really...

Then look at the damage being done.

Is the potential difference of how much longer the Cruiser lives balanced against the lesser amount of damage it does?

It's quite apparent how PvP was never seriously a consideration for the design of the game.

In PvE where NPCs are not using all the abilities/tactics of players - the survival differences are far more pronounced than they are in PvP.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 118
01-24-2013, 09:20 AM
Not sure how this got derailed into cruiser vs escort or beams vs cannons.

But, again the carrier is the only carrier to have 2 hangars and a commander tac and it can fit cannons. It has 4 Tac consoles and 4 forward weapon mounts. A dual aux2batt build w/APO3 or a single w/aux2damp (10 sec shared cooldown w/aux2batt not a big deal) w/RCS and the thing should turn easy enough for DHCs in PvE. Depending on the pets this thing could be the highest PvE dps machine in the game w/Dem2 and pet damage added in.

For the Heavy Escort (Destroyer) Carrier, that too is made for aux2batt. But, the buff layout can do some even more interesting unique things since the Uni Lt slot could be used for an additional Eng Boff or swapped out for Tac or swapped out for Sci. It is a very versital/flexible Boff layout.

I'm glad the ships have turnrate drawbacks, I wish more lotto ships had an achilies heal like these and the Vet ships do. I just wish the these "team" console buffs didn't make it into the game.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,584
# 119
01-24-2013, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Not sure how this got derailed into cruiser vs escort or beams vs cannons.
Initially the Dread Bug didn't list that it could use cannons but did list subsystem targeting - so bam - beams suck discussion - they added cannons to the description - so bam - beams vs. cannons discussion.

As for the Dread Bug - it's going to be like every other ship everybody talks about - until enough folks kill it and kill with it... we just won't know.
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 120
01-24-2013, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Initially the Dread Bug didn't list that it could use cannons but did list subsystem targeting - so bam - beams suck discussion - they added cannons to the description - so bam - beams vs. cannons discussion.

As for the Dread Bug - it's going to be like every other ship everybody talks about - until enough folks kill it and kill with it... we just won't know.
My point is there are more than enough threadnaughts on Beams vs Cannons, cruisers vs w/e. It wasn't meant to be directed at anyone, but just trying to get the threads original subject of the lockbox rewards.
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