Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,065
# 31
01-24-2013, 12:27 AM
I got a CrtDx3 DBB just a little earlier and will keep that and my CrtHx3 DBB in my inventory and switch each one out every now and then and see what works better for my style. I have a feeling it will not only depend on my style but might also depend on the target, whether it is a tank or sci ship, or escort. We will see.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 135
# 32
01-24-2013, 01:20 AM
k accx3 weapons don't bleed that much over anymore. http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/6...era-stoked-76/

The .xls is the actual max crit chance and severity you get from acc modifier. The max listed bonuses you can get is .25% critical chance and 1% critical severity. That is what the game uses! so your accx3 weapons are really really over rated. The only reason you would need accx3 weapons is the Bio neurals in No Win Scenario. HATE THOSE BIOS!!! I'm not kidding either you need accx2 or higher otherwise you see a wall of misses when shooting at those bios.

CrtH is king. Consoles and dhc's inante crit severity and attack pattern alpha gives enough severity you might as well use [acc] [crit]x2 for your weapons.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=490421 We want this help build support!
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,065
# 33
01-24-2013, 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deusemperor View Post
k accx3 weapons don't bleed that much over anymore. http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/6...era-stoked-76/

The .xls is the actual max crit chance and severity you get from acc modifier. The max listed bonuses you can get is .25% critical chance and 1% critical severity. That is what the game uses! so your accx3 weapons are really really over rated. The only reason you would need accx3 weapons is the Bio neurals in No Win Scenario. HATE THOSE BIOS!!! I'm not kidding either you need accx2 or higher otherwise you see a wall of misses when shooting at those bios.

CrtH is king. Consoles and dhc's inante crit severity and attack pattern alpha gives enough severity you might as well use [acc] [crit]x2 for your weapons.
Very interesting, it really has felt like my accx3 weapons weren't hitting hard enough, this explains it.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,246
# 34
01-24-2013, 04:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deusemperor View Post
The only reason you would need accx3 weapons is the Bio neurals in No Win Scenario. HATE THOSE BIOS!!! I'm not kidding either you need accx2 or higher otherwise you see a wall of misses when shooting at those bios.
This is why balance within ones own build is important. In the case of heavy torps fighters mines and bio-neural torps, they have less damage then other targets and the turrets shoot all directions so the turrets can be [Acc]x2 or [Acc]x3. that way you know you can always shoot down trouble while leaving your dhc and other weapons up front with more Crit modifiers for larger impact.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,301
# 35
01-24-2013, 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Nom Nom Nom.

Such tasty and useful info from "antoniosalieri."

When someone asks about weapon mods, I will point them to this thread.
It would be, if it was all true. But it isn't. There is a point where adding extra crit h isn't as valuable as adding crit d. Really hard to avoid that.

Oh, no it isn't. All you have to do is use absurdly low Crit H numbers and say "hey look crit h rules the roost."

And then you'd be right of course because in the prescence of zero crit, one percent crit is king! And things slowly begin to change as you climb up that ladder.

Even Acc HAS a value. That value just degrades far faster than the value of crit because it works in conjunction with def. Crit H is slower to degrade, but it does. You can reach a point where adding a percentage of crit won't be as valuable as adding x damage to all your current crits. And that's it. You don't look at 3 shots. You don't look at the damage crit d adds to one crit and say "oh hey thats not worth it".

Remember you're looking at incremental damage here. You aren't comparing between a miss and a crit. You're comparing only the incremental damage between hits and crits. So a drop in crit rate doesn't mean we lost ALL the damage from the shot. It is still a normal hit. When we add in crit d we add in damge to all of our crits. See how that sorta stacks up? Crit H doesn't increase your chance to gain a hit, it increases the conversion rate of hits to crits.

Oh and there's something else you look at. You look at what the OP was asking about in the OP. And that would be BO3 and some torps. Yah, you get Crit D. You get crit d because you won't ever get enough Crit H on weps for him to notice a difference in that ONE shot. You don't need a really powerful parser to measure the change it makes in ONE shot. See how easy that is when we stick to the topic?

Crit D.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.

Last edited by thissler; 01-24-2013 at 07:22 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,115
# 36
01-24-2013, 08:42 AM
When I first started playing this game a year ago, someone from the forums, went by Vizmu, who had represented themselves as a veteran PvPer. They went on to say that they tested the different modifier types with their fleet and friends, and they determined that CrtD edged out everything else in damage. Keep in mind, this was when the highest critical hit rate you could get without the weapon modifiers was just under 5% passive. I had no reason to distrust them and followed their advice.

At the time, he recommended Antiproton DHCs MK XI [crtd]x2 [dmg] as they were the cheapest and gave 70% critical severity.

I now have Phaser MK DHCs XII [crtd]x3, giving me the same critical severity, higher base damage, and the phaser proc.

Before Season 6, it seemed like CrtH would be a close contender to CrtD, because you could do double the amount critical hits with a [crth]x3. Even still, I stuck with CrtD and was still a top contributor in PvP and STF. Post-Season 6, it's much easier to get your critical hit above 10% (I currently have 14.7% with Assimilated Module, Tachyokinetic Converter, and 3x Romulan Tactical BOFFs). At this point 6% isn't even half of what my critical hit is now. If I were to go with CrtH now, I'd get about 20.7%....or, basically, 2 critical hits every 10 shots, versus 1.5 critical hits every 10 shots. Where as, my [CrtD]x3 gives me 60% (70% - 10% for it being a DHC) more critical severity than someone with [CrtH]x3 per critical hit (almost double the passive critical severity). With only getting .5 more critical hits every 10 shots, [crtd]x3 will pull off more damage in the long run.

As for [acc]x3, my fleet mates and I tested a single phaser [acc]x3 and [crth]x3 turret. Against my 80% defense here are the results we found (in 500-1000 shots, no buffs):
1) ACCx3 had 80% accuracy, and had 150 DPS
2) CrtHx3 had 60% accuracy, and had 160 DPS
The CrtHx3 had more DPS despite getting 20% less hits in. One could argue, that if a target was not moving, ACCx3 would get overflow critical hits and severity. While that is true, the accuracy of CrtHx3 would also go up in a similar situation, giving more hits, more critical hits, and more DPS.

In another test, I wanted to see what the accuracy was on my DHC [crtd]x3. Against another fleet mate's 81% defense, I hit him ~80% with no buffs. [acc]x3 is simply not needed for DHCs.

Last edited by shookyang; 01-24-2013 at 08:47 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 37
01-24-2013, 09:24 AM
I have 4x mkXI DHC with accx3 (polaron mk XII dhc are almost non existent on exchange) and 3 turrets mk XII accx3 on my bug ship.I tried my best to get the most dps out of the ship and crtH rate ( my toon has no space accurate or elusive trait ...was a noob 3 years ago).I spent alot of ec to get the best damage I could and now reading this thread Im almost disappointed and I feel like I wasted few hundred millions ec.I too noticed that accx3 delivers less damage in PvE compared to any other DHC (I dont know how much is the difference in PvP because on damage Im always first no matter what DHC I use ).
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,472
# 38
01-24-2013, 09:26 AM
Crtd is worse then dmg... seriously go parse it.

Crtd is about the most useless weapon mod there is.

Yes Crth Is better in every single situation then crtd.

You would be 100% correct about there being a tipping point where crtd would outweigh crth... IF this was a game where we stood and swung swords. But it isn't we have such a high numbner of weapons going off at such a high rate that really the point Crth would stop helping you would likey be up around the 40% mark... at which point almost every volley would have 3-4 crits no matter what.

Crtd does nothing but provide 20% extra dmg based on the critical amount.... again assuming a 1000 hit crits... every CrtD will give you 100 more dmg. Ya... you are almost better off with a dmg mod.

Think of it this way...
If we take 50 shots... and assume 10 of them crit (which is a nice crit rate and likely realistic with the game as it is) Lets say every hit lands for 1000... accept the ones with dmgx3 (lets assume fleet or the like)... they land for 1090

With Crtdx3... you get
40,000 from non crits
18,000 from crits
for a total of 58,000 total dmg

With DMGx3... you get
43,600 from non crits
16,350 from crits
for a total of 59,950 total dmg

If you don't think that math is pretty close to real world go parse it for a bit... you'll find that Crtd is no better then dmg... in fact as much as we laugh at dmg its better then crtd. lol
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,446
# 39
01-24-2013, 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianm63 View Post
I have 4x mkXI DHC with accx3 (polaron mk XII dhc are almost non existent on exchange) and 3 turrets mk XII accx3 on my bug ship.I tried my best to get the most dps out of the ship and crtH rate ( my toon has no space accurate or elusive trait ...was a noob 3 years ago).I spent alot of ec to get the best damage I could and now reading this thread Im almost disappointed and I feel like I wasted few hundred millions ec.I too noticed that accx3 delivers less damage in PvE compared to any other DHC (I dont know how much is the difference in PvP because on damage Im always first no matter what DHC I use ).
PvP and PvE are different animals.

For PvP Accx3 isn't bad if you don't build you ships w/TB or other defense debuffs (particularly if you PuG) and you like to maintain high pressure damage (which has its uses). It also helps if you like dogfighting and can maintain a quality defense cycle, so you outgrind an opponent.

It's just the crit modifiers help spike in a short window.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,115
# 40
01-24-2013, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Crtd does nothing but provide 20% extra dmg based on the critical amount.... again assuming a 1000 hit crits... every CrtD will give you 100 more dmg. Ya... you are almost better off with a dmg mod.

Think of it this way...
If we take 50 shots... and assume 10 of them crit (which is a nice crit rate and likely realistic with the game as it is) Lets say every hit lands for 1000... accept the ones with dmgx3 (lets assume fleet or the like)... they land for 1090

With Crtdx3... you get
40,000 from non crits
18,000 from crits
for a total of 58,000 total dmg

With DMGx3... you get
43,600 from non crits
16,350 from crits
for a total of 59,950 total dmg

If you don't think that math is pretty close to real world go parse it for a bit... you'll find that Crtd is no better then dmg... in fact as much as we laugh at dmg its better then crtd. lol
It should be more like this:
With Crtdx3... you get
40,000 from non crits
23,600 from crits (70% severity from DHC with crtdx3 + 66% passive severity)
for a total of 63,600 total dmg

With DMGx3... you get
43,600 from non crits
19,184 from crits (10% severity from DHC + 66% passive severity)
for a total of 62,784 total dmg

So, by my math, no...DMGx3 does not do more damage than CrtDx3 in your example. Also, DMG modifiers only give 5 more damage to DHCs, from what I could tell. Giving it 15 more damage. It should really be 1,015, not 1,090.

Let's say I buff my damage. I'll round down to 4,000.
With CrtDx3, I get:
160,000 from non-crits
94,400 from crits (70% severity from DHC with crtdx3 + 66% passive severity)
for a total of 254,400 total dmg

With DMGx3, I get (with the scale I used previously, Fleet weapons would get be buffed to 4,360):
174,400 from non-crits
76,736 from crits (10% severity from DHC + 66% passive severity)
for a total of 251,136 total dmg


Now, let's compare CrtHx3 to CrtDx3.
If we assume, in 100 shots, I get 15 critical hits with CrtDx3 and 20 critical hits with CrtHx3. All of this at 1,000 damage.

For CrtHx3:
80,000 non-crit
35,200 crit (10% severity from DHC + 66% passive severity)
for a total of 115,200 total dmg

For CrtDx3:
85,000 non-crit
35,400 crit (70% severity from DHC with crtdx3 + 66% passive severity)
for a total of 120,400 total dmg

Last edited by shookyang; 01-24-2013 at 10:00 AM.
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