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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,337
# 111
01-24-2013, 11:13 AM
Well, my two cents...

There can be two "easy" ways to keep most TOS fans happy (in my opinion).

1) Fleet Exeter cruiser (as mentioned before by someone else), greater handling, lower hul/crewl than most fleet cruisers.

2) TOS era texture/skin pack. How hard would it be to make a new texture for the ships that can give it that TOS look/feel? Sell it for, I dunno 2,500 Zen? Get all of the ships re-skinned to
TOS look, that grey hull, black letters, sensor dish (where applicable) and old style nacelles and pylons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 110
# 112
01-24-2013, 11:24 AM
It's clear that CBS has vetoed a T5 Constitution.

That said, I think the idea of a T5 Exeter/Excalbur/Vesper is a very creative workaround, and one I would very much support. Maybe also a Fleet version?

It's also a win for Cryptic, as they would get to sell more ships/modules - with no need for any new graphical work.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 997
# 113
01-24-2013, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hravik View Post
Please point me to the line, or scene where the Admiral describes every ship type, name, and disposition of every ship in the fleet? Your main point was we knew exactly where these ships came from, which is patently false.
Recalling every available ship implies active duty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hravik View Post
Single man fighters that we already know exist from Crusher's academy experience
Still fighting forces that were left behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hravik View Post
Paradise Lost, DS9 S4E12 - SISKO: Three hours later Starfleet Command issued an order assigning the entire Corps of Cadets to field duty.

Is every cadet at the Academy enough for you? You can argue they didn't actually fight, but at this time they were fully expecting a full scale invasion at any time.
I ask for an example of cadets being purposely sent into combat and that's the best you've got? With most of star fleet previously assigned to the streets they were likely doing paper work, even if they weren't the deployment was issued for an attempted rebellion by a crazy admiral who knew the threat was manufactured.
The Somraw, K'tinga, D'Kyr, D7, Kumari, Xindi carrier, Xindi escort, and the T'Varo are all older than the Constitution Refit and yet they are tier 5. The Constellation is made up primarily of Connie refit parts and it is tier 5, there is no logical reason whatsoever for the no tier 5/6 connie rule.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 861
# 114
01-24-2013, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cidstorm View Post
Recalling every available ship implies active duty.
About to be overrun by Borg implies you do what you have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cidstorm View Post
Still fighting forces that were left behind.
Still single seat fighters that were too big to fit in shuttle bays, that we have no way of knowing if they even had the range to make it to Wolf 359. We're not even sure if they were warp capable. Even then these ships were described as...wait for it...academy flight trainers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cidstorm View Post
I ask for an example of cadets being purposely sent into combat and that's the best you've got? With most of star fleet previously assigned to the streets they were likely doing paper work, even if they weren't the deployment was issued for an attempted rebellion by a crazy admiral who knew the threat was manufactured.
You have to remember this was a conspiracy of few, the admiral was crazy, but didn't dictate orders for ALL of Starfleet Command. Fabricated or not, the threat seemed real until Sisko proved otherwise. And paperwork? Since when is field duty paperwork? Besides that...

Cadet Nog, taken into combat to track down Micheal Eddington while the Defiant is barely operational, used to relay orders to engineering DS9 For the Uniform S5E13, fought during the capture of DS9 Call to Arms S5E26, several months of combat operations on the Defiant after that, participated in a highly dangerous mission to destroy a ketracel-white facility DS9 A Time to Stand S6E01, then was captured by and later fought Jem'Hadar in DS9 Rocks and Shoals S6E02, continued to serve on the Defiant for an unknown amount of time as a cadet until the recapture of DS9 when he was finally made an ensign DS9 Favor the Bold S6E05.

Let's not forget the biggest one of all...The Wrath of Khan. Yes, your favorite Enterprise, the 1701 herself was serving as a training ship. Kirk being on that ship at all was supposed to be just a short training cruise, with most of the run of the mill crewmen being cadets!

Shall I keep going? I could probably think of a few more if I really thought about it. Want me to go into the real life US Navy history, too? I know of a few there as well.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91851990000&dateline=  1341951426

Last edited by hravik; 01-24-2013 at 12:52 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 997
# 115
01-24-2013, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hravik View Post
About to be overrun by Borg implies you do what you have to.
Perhaps you missed the grammatical establishment of recall, and in the fleet, those ships came from active duty and that's all the proof I need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hravik View Post
Still single seat fighters that were too big to fit in shuttle bays, that we have no way of knowing if they even had the range to make it to Wolf 359. We're not even sure if they were warp capable. Even then these ships were described as...wait for it...academy flight trainers.
They are not academy trainers, you can look up the models on memory alpha. They are dedicated modern combat fighters that we're left behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hravik View Post
You have to remember this was a conspiracy of few, the admiral was crazy, but didn't dictate orders for ALL of Starfleet Command. Fabricated or not, the threat seemed real until Sisko proved otherwise. And paperwork? Since when is field duty paperwork? Besides that...

Cadet Nog, taken into combat to track down Micheal Eddington while the Defiant is barely operational, used to relay orders to engineering DS9 For the Uniform S5E13, fought during the capture of DS9 Call to Arms S5E26, several months of combat operations on the Defiant after that, participated in a highly dangerous mission to destroy a ketracel-white facility DS9 A Time to Stand S6E01, then was captured by and later fought Jem'Hadar in DS9 Rocks and Shoals S6E02, continued to serve on the Defiant for an unknown amount of time as a cadet until the recapture of DS9 when he was finally made an ensign DS9 Favor the Bold S6E05.

Shall I keep going? I could probably think of a few more if I really thought about it. Want me to go into the real life US Navy history, too? I know of a few there as well.
Well you got me on the cadet aspect, my bad there. But the truth remains on the admirals source info for the fleet.
The Somraw, K'tinga, D'Kyr, D7, Kumari, Xindi carrier, Xindi escort, and the T'Varo are all older than the Constitution Refit and yet they are tier 5. The Constellation is made up primarily of Connie refit parts and it is tier 5, there is no logical reason whatsoever for the no tier 5/6 connie rule.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 861
# 116
01-24-2013, 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cidstorm View Post
Perhaps you missed the grammatical establishment of recall, and in the fleet, those ships came from active duty and that's all the proof I need.
Perhaps you missed the part where Hanson never said recall? He didn't say one word on the origin of any of the ships. Just 'we have assembled a fleet.'

Quote:
Originally Posted by cidstorm View Post
They are not academy trainers, you can look up the models on memory alpha. They are dedicated modern combat fighters that we're left behind.
Memory alpha calls them sentry pods, no further information can be found on what they are, what they can do, or if they are even warp capable. The script even calls them unmanned pods, so these things are not even crewed, just part of the planetary defense system for Mars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cidstorm View Post
Well you got me on the cadet aspect, my bad there. But the truth remains on the admirals source info for the fleet.
There is zero source information for the fleet. None. Zip. Zero. Nada.

Check out my edit for the post above, you'll probably hate that one.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91851990000&dateline=  1341951426
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 997
# 117
01-24-2013, 01:27 PM
Near the beginning of the first episode the admiral says he's sending all available ships, as in ships that can make it that are in service.

The drones are still combat machines worth taking, especially if the situation was so dire it required museum pieces. Tractor beams are warp capable if they are too big for shuttle bays.

And even though I was wrong about cadets, twok doesn't count because that was supposed to be a training cruise.
The Somraw, K'tinga, D'Kyr, D7, Kumari, Xindi carrier, Xindi escort, and the T'Varo are all older than the Constitution Refit and yet they are tier 5. The Constellation is made up primarily of Connie refit parts and it is tier 5, there is no logical reason whatsoever for the no tier 5/6 connie rule.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 861
# 118
01-24-2013, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cidstorm View Post
Near the beginning of the first episode the admiral says he's sending all available ships, as in ships that can make it that are in service.

The drones are still combat machines worth taking, especially if the situation was so dire it required museum pieces. Tractor beams are warp capable if they are too big for shuttle bays.

And even though I was wrong about cadets, twok doesn't count because that was supposed to be a training cruise.
The Enterprise was available in twok, and it was just a ship full of cadets. I don't think the admiral was going to be too fussy to take a trainer ship into combat when facing the borg.

You assume these ships were able to function outside of whatever control center mars had.

Twok does count. Cadets being sent into a dangerous situation are cadets being sent into a dangerous situation. It even shows some constitutions being relegated to training, even in kirk's day
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91851990000&dateline=  1341951426
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 119
01-24-2013, 02:19 PM
Direct answer to the title of thread:

You don't. You ignore them.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 836
# 120
01-24-2013, 03:37 PM
I'd like to see the Ambassador with a Connie skin (if you already purchased the Connie ship), then be able to have the Connie bridge applied to it.

This is just like it makes sense that you can buy the TOS uniforms and be flying around in an Ody. We need the ship to fit the uniforms for the fantasy to be complete.

I would at least like the satisfaction of being told that my ship shouldn't be hauling garbage... it should be hauled away AS garbage.
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