Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 301
# 11
01-26-2013, 03:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disposeableh3r0 View Post
I was actualy only talking about the issue with the weapons in general and was not trying to be specific to a ship class. The subject of cruisers and the love they need has been, and is currently being discussed in other threads. And as evidenced by the thread link the power drain issue has been brought up as well.

Current turn rate thread... http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=526211
Yes, I agree. These issues have already been discussed in numerous previous threads. I just didn't want ppl to think that solving the weapons issue alone will fix all the related issues that need to be fixed. Sorry if I pulled this off topic. I agree with the direction of your OP, just wanted to flavor it some more.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,624
# 12
01-26-2013, 03:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonulinu2 View Post
Yes, I agree. These issues have already been discussed in numerous previous threads. I just didn't want ppl to think that solving the weapons issue alone will fix all the related issues that need to be fixed. Sorry if I pulled this off topic. I agree with the direction of your OP, just wanted to flavor it some more.
No probs.. I linked the other discussions for refrence....and cake.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 662
# 13
01-26-2013, 04:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 View Post
If a cruiser can do escort-like damage, an escort needs cruiser-like survivability.
And this right here is the core of the issue. Cruiser fanbois don't understand that they can't have their cake and eat it too. If you're going to give escort-like damage to a tank, you have to give tank-like capabilities to the escort. Balance must be maintained, or everyone would just fly cruisers.

As it stands, I see a nice healthy mix of escorts and cruisers every day. The only ships that I think need more representation (i.e. more help in the form of some kind of buff) are science vessels.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 301
# 14
01-26-2013, 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
And this right here is the core of the issue. Cruiser fanbois don't understand that they can't have their cake and eat it too. If you're going to give escort-like damage to a tank, you have to give tank-like capabilities to the escort. Balance must be maintained, or everyone would just fly cruisers.

As it stands, I see a nice healthy mix of escorts and cruisers every day. The only ships that I think need more representation (i.e. more help in the form of some kind of buff) are science vessels.
I agree Science vessels need more representation, however, imho escorts are tanky in their own right. Just ask all the escorts that brag about their tanking skills and exploits. Oh and by the way, I fly an escort too. I'm not just a cruiser fanbois. Not asking to dish out dps like a scort, which btw will never happen because you need tac captain skill for the burst, just saying we need either the ability to inflict more damage or lessen the ability of escorts to grab aggro and tank. Anyway that's just my 2 cents worth.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 662
# 15
01-26-2013, 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonulinu2 View Post
or lessen the ability of escorts to grab aggro and tank
Threat-scaling consoles.

Seriously, any escort captain who deliberately grabs aggro is an idiot. Escorts simply cannot tank as well as a cruiser can, no matter how "defensive" your skillpoint and BOFF setup is. Whenever my fleet gets the embassy up to T1, I plan to run the -50% console from the embassy store for precisely that reason.

By the same token, cruisers can run the +50% consoles for the same result - less aggro to the escorts, more to the cruisers.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,624
# 16
01-26-2013, 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
And this right here is the core of the issue. Cruiser fanbois don't understand that they can't have their cake and eat it too. If you're going to give escort-like damage to a tank, you have to give tank-like capabilities to the escort. Balance must be maintained, or everyone would just fly cruisers.

As it stands, I see a nice healthy mix of escorts and cruisers every day. The only ships that I think need more representation (i.e. more help in the form of some kind of buff) are science vessels.
Again I must re-iterate none of my suggestions are restricted to vessle type so everyone benifits, in fact I believe I gave examples of net gain earlier in the thread. And none of my suggestions increase dps just initial spike damage, and the dps is still lower than any dual cannon and even dual beam banks.

Really the thought was there arent any choices in beam weapons and there are ship classes that are stuck with only beams and only low end beam skills. Why not spread it out?

let me break it down again.

A cruiser will gain the ability to deal increased initial damage but does not gain increased dps. This gives them the option of mounting heavy weapons that require precise timing to use and should allow them to generate more aggro enabling them to tank more efficiently.

A science ship will gain access to more beam skills and heavier beam as well, but a 360 degree beam turret allows them to run the more popular cannon setup and still have a beam available to use their innate subsystem targeting. A great hope when the KCB was being released.

An escort now has access to BO3 at a lower level allowing them to take more higher level cannon/torpedo/mine/attack paterns giving them the ability to potential deal MORE damage.
Add to that they can use either of the 2 proposed weapons, such as an aft beam turret with 4 foreward cannons and bo3 crf2x2 or any of the sub system targeting skills without sacraficing a DHC.

I don't see where you guys keep coming up with "He wants cruisers to out dps escorts".
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,624
# 17
01-26-2013, 05:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
Threat-scaling consoles.

Seriously, any escort captain who deliberately grabs aggro is an idiot. Escorts simply cannot tank as well as a cruiser can, no matter how "defensive" your skillpoint and BOFF setup is. Whenever my fleet gets the embassy up to T1, I plan to run the -50% console from the embassy store for precisely that reason.

By the same token, cruisers can run the +50% consoles for the same result - less aggro to the escorts, more to the cruisers.
Agreed. You should try the plasma consoles, they're prety hot.......
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abriham Lincoln
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 471
# 18
01-26-2013, 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
If you're going to give escort-like damage to a tank, you have to give tank-like capabilities to the escort.
Highlighted this part because escorts already tank BETTER than cruisers due to having an absurdly high defence stat, EPTS, Aux2SIF, HE and TSS.

Any escort worth a damn is flying around with max defence so the chance of anything hitting him is at the minimum of 25%. Cruisers are lucky if that number is 50% which means a cruiser takes twice as much damage as an escort.

Cruisers mitigate tank and heal. Classic tanking.

Escorts avoidance tank and heal. Pro tanking.

There is no way escorts tank less than cruisers. They are at least as good if not better.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 659
# 19
01-26-2013, 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulifdavis View Post
And this right here is the core of the issue. Cruiser fanbois don't understand that they can't have their cake and eat it too. If you're going to give escort-like damage to a tank, you have to give tank-like capabilities to the escort. Balance must be maintained, or everyone would just fly cruisers.

As it stands, I see a nice healthy mix of escorts and cruisers every day. The only ships that I think need more representation (i.e. more help in the form of some kind of buff) are science vessels.
Cruisers aren't the tanks in STO. Escorts are the tanks in STO. Either you have no idea what a tank does, or you lack any experience in STO.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 662
# 20
01-26-2013, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerstorm View Post
Cruisers aren't the tanks in STO. Escorts are the tanks in STO. Either you have no idea what a tank does, or you lack any experience in STO.
No, you have no idea what a tank is. Tanks are meant to absorb damage. Cruisers are best designed to fill this role by having high hull points and the ability to slot an absurd number of heals.

Escorts are damage dealers. Sure, they're not "glass cannons", but they can't take as much punishment as a cruiser can. An escort's forte is killing the enemy before the enemy kills them. To that end, they have high damage, and MEDIUM tanking abilities. A cruiser or science vessel pilot with half a brain will always out-tank even the best escort.
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