Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > Federation Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
After all this new patches and new seasons, beams are still a worthless form of firepower. It doens't matter if you are in PVP or PVE, you only deal minimal damage in comparison to cannons, or torpedos. Its useless against players now because they can heal faster than you can deal damage. Its the opposite affect with the cannons. They deal damage faster than you can heal. With that type of imbalance, it makes most of the ships on the Fed side oppsolete in comparison to KDF and cruisers lacking extra weapon slots, Tac BOFF slots, or cannons oppsolete in comparison to escorts. As a cruiser in a PVP match, all you can do is heal. You can't go 1 on 1 with an escort because he will mop the floor with you. He can deal damage to you with his rappid cannon fire faster than you can heal yourself, yet you can barely scratch his hull with your inefficient beams because cryptic has made things to where escorts can heal themselves just as fast as cruisers. If you are lucky to get his shield down he can turn and burn, leaving you in the dust because his engines are way more powerful than yours. If your ship don't have the higher than LT Tac Boff slots, cannons, carries fighters, or have more than two weapons consoles, then you are just going to be another target magnet for those carriers cannons.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 2
01-26-2013, 12:27 PM
You know, this is probably one of the few posts you have made that I actually mostly agree with. Beams are weak. I won't dispute that. They have a rather large firing arc though, so that makes them useful in some situations.

However I will disagree with this part:

Quote:
Its the opposite affect with the cannons. They deal damage faster than you can heal.
I can outheal the majority of an alpha strike from a bug in my Odyssey. Anything I can't outheal straight up I can usually pick up with HoTs. You are correct, cannon and BA damage have a massive disparity, almost to the point of stupidity, but you vastly underestimate or devalue the ability of cruisers to heal not only themselves but others.

Word of advice:
If you're having trouble surviving against an escort, use the following ability combo: EPtS3, TT1, HE2, TSS1, Aux2SIF3, as appropriate. If you keep cycling those abilities and time them properly, the escort will never pop you. Also you have MW3 as your "oh ****" button, and combined with a RSP2, you can EASILY outlast any escort, at least long enough that it will get bored/one of your teammates will come and kill it.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,212
# 3
01-26-2013, 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
[...] you can EASILY outlast any escort, at least long enough that it will get bored/one of your teammates will come and kill it.
I bet that's exactly why one wants to play a Star Trek starship captain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 4
01-26-2013, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
I bet that's exactly why one wants to play a Star Trek starship captain.
I play an engi in a cruiser. I have no illusions whatsoever to the fact that I am not the main damage dealer. I also have no illusions to the fact that in PvP, if it takes less than 3 people to kill my Odyssey (without a sub-nuke), then I am doing something wrong.

I also play tactical captains. And THEM I go bat-**** crazy and kill things. I have no illusions to the fact that I am anything but a damage dealer. It's all about knowing what your ship can and cannot do (well), and knowing what each career can and cannot do (well).

So please, save your sarcastic mockery for one of your random unfounded request threads.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,212
# 5
01-26-2013, 01:18 PM
It is not "mockery" to simply point out that the design intention between any game is entertaining of all players, and that when that does not work, then maybe, possibly, there's something wrong with the game. It is also not "mockery" to say this in a less direct manner.

If I have offended you, I apologize.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 6
01-26-2013, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
It is not "mockery" to simply point out that the design intention between any game is entertaining of all players, and that when that does not work, then maybe, possibly, there's something wrong with the game. It is also not "mockery" to say this in a less direct manner.

If I have offended you, I apologize.
It simply comes down to the simple fact that dealing damage is easy, but so is healing and tanking. However DD tend to seem OP since they are just the most effective in PvE. However in PvP, it's a TEAM effort (something OP doesn't always seem to remember), and each ship has it's own role and place in that TEAM effort. Full escort teams often get rolled hard by mix teams. They can't heal each other nearly as well as a cruiser can heal something. An escort cannot CC nearly as well as a science ship can.

So beams have their place, as weak as they are. But as I stated multiple times in multiple threads, the only buff on beams I would support would be the return of the ~20% damage lost at some point after BFAW came out, and a slight (VERY slight) accuracy bonus.

Also another thing to point out, beams are far more effective at longer ranges than cannons. By a significant margin.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,030
# 7
01-26-2013, 01:44 PM
i'm pretty sure that beams are not intended to be "kill weapons" in this game. they are utility weapons.
anyway, personally i think the most obvious thing "wrong" (i wouldn't even call it that, but in favor of this thread i do) is the high drain rate, which basically means you need to run a setup for max weapon power on your cruiser to make them effective...once you do it works, but you have to sacrifice surviveability on your cruiser, which kind of makes the issue moot for me, since they are designed as tanks in this game and not prime DD's.

in my opinion, the cruiser with beams played as intended, like a tank/support/healer works fine in this game...once you try to make it a DD, you either sacrifice a lot of the 3...which basically means you are better off with an escort/dual cannons anyway, or you fail completely and the ship is not capable of filling in any of those roles (that happens a lot)

i'm completely in favor of reducing beam energy drain to 6, but would that increase beam dmg to a point where they are viable DD weapons...certainly not, most cruiser classes would still be horrible ships for the DD role.

the problem with beams lies not with beams, but with people wanting to fly their favourite ships in roles they are not designed for in this game.
The funny part actually is, that in PVE that really doesn't even matter, since you can practically reach 4-5k dps with any T4/T5 ship in this game if you look around for usefull builds.
Go pro or go home
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,212
# 8
01-26-2013, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
It simply comes down to the simple fact that dealing damage is easy, but so is healing and tanking. However DD tend to seem OP since they are just the most effective in PvE.
At this point, we should remind ourselves that STO is a PVE-centered game. 95% of players (if not more) do not really play PvP in any significant amount.

This is a very important thing to keep in mind.

Quote:
However in PvP, it's a TEAM effort (something OP doesn't always seem to remember), and each ship has it's own role and place in that TEAM effort.
That is an overgeneralization. No, PvP is just "player vs. player". That includes duels (which happen frequently via private challenges), Capture and Hold (which has its share of 1v1 encounters), and Ker'rat (which is full of 1v1).

Seriously. The game must work 1v1 with any ship pairing, or it does not work.

Quote:
They can't heal each other nearly as well as a cruiser can heal something. An escort cannot CC nearly as well as a science ship can.
Even though this is drifting offtopic, I would like to point out that escorts can do a cruiser's job much, much, much, much, much better than a cruiser can do an escort's, and it can do a sci ship's "crowd control" job at least as good as a science ship, as there are "crowd control" (which means, to control crowds of smaller NPC's) tactical powers that are far more effective than sci ones: CSV, BFAW, TS control crowds better than GW, TR, PSW, CPB, TBR can even hope. Science vessels can debuff better, but escorts don't need to do that, because blowing up stuff is, ultimately, a much better "debuff" anyway.

Star Trek Online, in 99% of the existing space combat content (including most PvP), is Escorts Online right now.

I really do have trouble understanding how anyone could disagree with this.

Quote:
So beams have their place, as weak as they are. But as I stated multiple times in multiple threads, the only buff on beams I would support would be the return of the ~20% damage lost at some point after BFAW came out, and a slight (VERY slight) accuracy bonus.
I am all for a cautious approach when adjusting game mechanics. But before that, it is required to acknowledge that there is some adjustment needed.

Quote:
Also another thing to point out, beams are far more effective at longer ranges than cannons. By a significant margin.
Yes, they do only 60% of their base damage, where cannons do 40%. Unfortunately, with the existing base numbers, guess who wins.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...lM_skuv4#t=584
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 144
# 9
01-26-2013, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
With that type of imbalance, it makes most of the ships on the Fed side oppsolete in comparison to KDF
Thats not entirely true. For PvE, Cannons on cruisers are ... acceptable. The KI is stupid and does not try to outmanouver you.

In PvP, even the Vor'cha has too low turn rate to match with the agility of any escort, beside you are using aux2damp ... however, if you do that, you loose so much engineering that you also simply could fly a raptor and would be better with.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 10
01-26-2013, 02:15 PM
The problem is actually with the cannons not with the beams.

Cannons have an absurd damage and rate of fire and this is what makes the beams look so decrepit.

Cannons need to be changed to:


Single cannon
Single Heavy Cannon*
Dual Cannon

*Rather than it being dual heavy cannon.

By removing the very high damage dual heavy cannon and 'trimming it' to a single heavy cannon the cannon ships in the game fall in line with the beam weaponry.

How? Simple. The cannon's primary advantage is that it has a rapid refire & fire rate plus the boff abilities buff ALL cannons not just one (unlike beams) when firing on a single target.

The dual heavy cannon receives an insane damage boost and rate of fire bonus from boff abilities and this is why most people dont bother with single cannons and rarely use dual cannons. The dual heavy is the one that has the massive damage output.

A single heavy cannon would have the same refire rate the dual heavy has now but only have minimally better damage output than the dual cannons .The catch: the heavy cannon has twice the secondary effect the non-heavy cannons have. Not chance to proc but the effect itself.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:48 PM.