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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 11
01-26-2013, 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
By removing the very high damage dual heavy cannon and 'trimming it' to a single heavy cannon the cannon ships in the game fall in line with the beam weaponry.

How? Simple. The cannon's primary advantage is that it has a rapid refire & fire rate plus the boff abilities buff ALL cannons not just one (unlike beams) when firing on a single target.

The dual heavy cannon receives an insane damage boost and rate of fire bonus from boff abilities and this is why most people dont bother with single cannons and rarely use dual cannons. The dual heavy is the one that has the massive damage output.

A single heavy cannon would have the same refire rate the dual heavy has now but only have minimally better damage output than the dual cannons .The catch: the heavy cannon has twice the secondary effect the non-heavy cannons have. Not chance to proc but the effect itself.
I don't even know where to start here.

1) Procs on DHCs are not more powerful. They're 100% the same.

2) DHCs receive the exact same bonuses from a given boff ability as every other cannon type

3) What makes DHCs better is not some crazy base damage superiority, but their power efficiency. Solve the drain problem for DCs, single cannons and beams, and they'll be just
as good as DHCs.

4) If you really think FaW only affects one beam array, you've got serious issues.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 12
01-26-2013, 02:30 PM
Why frack with cannons, especially change the DHCs to Single Heavy Cannons, when the issue is with beams? Nerfing cannons based on perception doesnt fix beams.
Fix Beam Arrays, not nerf cannons.
Fix Beam Array power drain issue.
Give Beams a CRF style BOff ability in the game.
Adjust All other weapon types to make sense in reflection with handicaps balanced to thier increased damage values.
DBBs a better Firing arc.
Single Cannons a better firing arc.
Dual Cannons a better firing arc.
Create a Heavy Beam Bank that is to Cruisers as DHCs are to Escorts.
Create a Beam turret.

Do anything but go backwards by nerfing cannons, especialy based on perception.

Why? Because the perception of thier suckage will never change to those who continue to to thinks cannons are why thry suck.

Because Beam Arrays still suck because they havent fixed them yet.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 13
01-26-2013, 02:42 PM
Oh, funny how the OP went from Beams suck through escorts are OP to the KDF are OP back to beams suck in one long block of text.

Do beams suck or is it that cannons are OP or Escorts are OP or healing for Cruisers suck or fed ships suck or KDF ships are OP or........ What? Your post is all over the place and hints at many agendas within agendas...

Did you drink Sophies cool aid or just make your on?
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,942
# 14
01-26-2013, 02:59 PM
I actually managed to get top damage a few times in my Intrepid (Gorn and Klingon PVE) so i wouldn't say beams are worthless. They do take more skill to use to their fullest effect though.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 765
# 15
01-26-2013, 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Why frack with cannons, especially change the DHCs to Single Heavy Cannons, when the issue is with beams? Nerfing cannons based on perception doesnt fix beams.
Fix Beam Arrays, not nerf cannons.
Fix Beam Array power drain issue.
Give Beams a CRF style BOff ability in the game.
Adjust All other weapon types to make sense in reflection with handicaps balanced to thier increased damage values.
DBBs a better Firing arc.
Single Cannons a better firing arc.
Dual Cannons a better firing arc.
Create a Heavy Beam Bank that is to Cruisers as DHCs are to Escorts.
Create a Beam turret.

Do anything but go backwards by nerfing cannons, especialy based on perception.

Why? Because the perception of thier suckage will never change to those who continue to to thinks cannons are why thry suck.

Because Beam Arrays still suck because they havent fixed them yet.
Indeed, well said.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 16
01-26-2013, 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hereticknight085 View Post
You know, this is probably one of the few posts you have made that I actually mostly agree with. Beams are weak. I won't dispute that. They have a rather large firing arc though, so that makes them useful in some situations.

However I will disagree with this part:



I can outheal the majority of an alpha strike from a bug in my Odyssey. Anything I can't outheal straight up I can usually pick up with HoTs. You are correct, cannon and BA damage have a massive disparity, almost to the point of stupidity, but you vastly underestimate or devalue the ability of cruisers to heal not only themselves but others.

Word of advice:
If you're having trouble surviving against an escort, use the following ability combo: EPtS3, TT1, HE2, TSS1, Aux2SIF3, as appropriate. If you keep cycling those abilities and time them properly, the escort will never pop you. Also you have MW3 as your "oh ****" button, and combined with a RSP2, you can EASILY outlast any escort, at least long enough that it will get bored/one of your teammates will come and kill it.
Well you can't heal your buddies if you they die before you can catch up to them in your slow ship. That the problem i run into. Most escort pilots want to zip off by themselves than get mad at you becasue you coulnd't keep up with them to heal them. May I remind you, that you don't get rewards for healing yourself or anyone else. I am a Tac camptain so my heals are not very strong because I am set up for offense, at least I try to be.

Last edited by alexindcobra; 01-26-2013 at 04:08 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 17
01-26-2013, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiphenon View Post
Thats not entirely true. For PvE, Cannons on cruisers are ... acceptable. The KI is stupid and does not try to outmanouver you.

In PvP, even the Vor'cha has too low turn rate to match with the agility of any escort, beside you are using aux2damp ... however, if you do that, you loose so much engineering that you also simply could fly a raptor and would be better with.
The Vorcha is a an Attack Cruiser wich means it's compared with cruisers, not escorts. Raptors and raiders are escorts. If you may know, almost all KDF ships are armed with cannons except for the carriers so that can they culd deal alot of damage quite easy if they wanted to.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 18
01-26-2013, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
May I remind you you don't get rewards for healing yourself or anyone else.
Incorrect.

FAs give contribution for hull and shield healing done, both to yourself and others.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 19
01-26-2013, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
The problem is actually with the cannons not with the beams.

Cannons have an absurd damage and rate of fire and this is what makes the beams look so decrepit.

Cannons need to be changed to:


Single cannon
Single Heavy Cannon*
Dual Cannon

*Rather than it being dual heavy cannon.

By removing the very high damage dual heavy cannon and 'trimming it' to a single heavy cannon the cannon ships in the game fall in line with the beam weaponry.

How? Simple. The cannon's primary advantage is that it has a rapid refire & fire rate plus the boff abilities buff ALL cannons not just one (unlike beams) when firing on a single target.

The dual heavy cannon receives an insane damage boost and rate of fire bonus from boff abilities and this is why most people dont bother with single cannons and rarely use dual cannons. The dual heavy is the one that has the massive damage output.

A single heavy cannon would have the same refire rate the dual heavy has now but only have minimally better damage output than the dual cannons .The catch: the heavy cannon has twice the secondary effect the non-heavy cannons have. Not chance to proc but the effect itself.
Yeah, we complained about this at the begining of the game but the DEVs said they were not going to nerf the cannons because it was more fun to see stuff blow up at a fast rate versus at a normal realistic rate. As long as they don't nerf cannons, they need to boost beams to make an level playing field.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 598
# 20
01-26-2013, 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Why frack with cannons, especially change the DHCs to Single Heavy Cannons, when the issue is with beams? Nerfing cannons based on perception doesnt fix beams.
Fix Beam Arrays, not nerf cannons.
Fix Beam Array power drain issue.
Give Beams a CRF style BOff ability in the game.
Adjust All other weapon types to make sense in reflection with handicaps balanced to thier increased damage values.
DBBs a better Firing arc.
Single Cannons a better firing arc.
Dual Cannons a better firing arc.
Create a Heavy Beam Bank that is to Cruisers as DHCs are to Escorts.
Create a Beam turret.

Do anything but go backwards by nerfing cannons, especialy based on perception.

Why? Because the perception of thier suckage will never change to those who continue to to thinks cannons are why thry suck.

Because Beam Arrays still suck because they havent fixed them yet.
That what i'm talking about. Good Idea
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