Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 54
# 11
01-27-2013, 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
EDIT: Authors, I've told you the team is investigating this. I'm not sure what more I can do But, the passive-aggressive posts are not helping, and quite frankly, I'm actually really disappointed that such respected members of the Foundry community are resorting to threads and posts like this. I understand you're frustrated, and I've heard you loud and clear -- I've passed along your feedback, and the team is investigating. I'd suggest you take a look at how your voices are contributing to the issue, as from how I see it, you're not helping your cause. Thank you. -Brandon
Branden, I think it's pretty emblematic of the Foundry group on this forum: entitled and prone to throw temper tantrums. I'm sure your solution will be well met, even if it means that some of the foundry's few storytelling tools will have to be broken or disabled -- or nerfing the game... again.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,304
# 12
01-27-2013, 08:46 AM
Quote:
I'd suggest you take a look at how your voices are contributing to the issue, as from how I see it, you're not helping your cause. Thank you. -Brandon
Had an email this morning from someone who said they are reevaluating the way they rate missions like the grinder I created, based on the dialog in the mission.

If one person changes their mind about the fact that these missions do not deserve 5 stars , because they can be made in an hour, then I see that as helping our "cause". Changing one person's mind about this makes a difference.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 54
# 13
01-27-2013, 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiejon View Post
Had an email this morning from someone who said they are reevaluating the way they rate missions like the grinder I created, based on the dialog in the mission.

If one person changes their mind about the fact that these missions do not deserve 5 stars , because they can be made in an hour, then I see that as helping our "cause". Changing one person's mind about this makes a difference.
The converse is, once you get it nerfed, people may reevaluate how to rate the "respected" members of this Foudry forum.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,304
# 14
01-27-2013, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindisbaddesign View Post
The converse is, once you get it nerfed, people may reevaluate how to rate the "respected" members of this Foudry forum.
I'm really not bothered by 1 star bandits.
yes, the thing you are attempting to be subtle about threatening has a name.
if you hate me.
and you hate my opinions.
and that forces you to come and 1 star all my missions just to be a spiteful jerk.
well, I'd say that says more about you as a person, and should probably make you think with some personal reflection about just what kind of person you want to be.
honestly, that's all i have to say about that.

have a nice day.
seriously, because as low as you apparently think of me, I'm honestly the kind of guy who hopes that you have a nice day.

peace
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 514
# 15
01-27-2013, 10:05 AM
You know what? You think we're entitled and the devs/mods think we're 'contributing to the problem'?

I'm done with this bs. Don't worry, I won't trouble you with trying to create entertaining content. Cryptic, I'm really sorry some of us were keen on improving your game and helpin make the game a more viable commodity.

I'll be deleting my missions and canceling my subscription shortly.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,474
# 16
01-27-2013, 10:11 AM
Quote:
EDIT: Authors, I've told you the team is investigating this. I'm not sure what more I can do But, the passive-aggressive posts are not helping, and quite frankly, I'm actually really disappointed that such respected members of the Foundry community are resorting to threads and posts like this. I understand you're frustrated, and I've heard you loud and clear -- I've passed along your feedback, and the team is investigating. I'd suggest you take a look at how your voices are contributing to the issue, as from how I see it, you're not helping your cause. Thank you. -Brandon
So, making sure that I understand here... For like a year, the team did absolutely nothing about the clickies and pretty much ignored the Foundry unless our missions broke. Then, EP Stahl blamed us for the situation because the community didn't "police itself" or something like that. We pretty much gave up, just accepting that the hot list would be clogged by quickies. Now, when we are vocal or "passive aggressive" it isn't helping our cause.

At this point, do you really expect us to just say, "OK, Cryptic is investigating X, Y, or Z with the Foundry, so that means something will get fixed! They are investigating!"

Well somebody somewhere has been investigating a lot of stuff for a very long time. I can understand if you're frustrated too. We are all justified in being frustrated. But we are also justified in being vocal or generally POed at the state of affairs.

You guys want us to "police ourselves."

If the team had delivered the rewards system that was talked about by Dstahl in May of last year, instead of giving us temporary measures, then the "top rated" wouldn't be clogged with farming.

Oh well, I'm off to play HippieJohn's new mission on Elite and spend about 40 minutes fighting with the exchange for my ECs. It's a lot of work to resell all the free loot. I wish the time I spent at the exchange counted toward the average completion time of these farming missions. Every single one would qualify for the IOR.

EDIT: KF, that's not what I'm referring to. The 'vocal or "passive aggressive"' posts I'm referring to are the ones in this thread -- the fake "this is the best mission I've ever played" and the whole mission itself. The posts that you and the community have made about how this should not pave the future, "something should change", and feedback about "timid" is great -- this is where you should focus your frustration on. Making missions yourself that are "grinders", as well as the fake "these are great" posts in this thread, as respected authors, is what I'm referring to as "not helping the cause, but contributing to it" -- this is where I would hope you would not focus your frustration on. "Oh, Kirkfat thinks it's okay and plays the mission all the time, and the winner of the Foundry challenge even made one, so I will too," is what players are going to think when they see well-known authors make these posts, and then contribute to the issue. I never saw you guys make "clickie" missions, so why make these ones? If you think that's going to get it fixed faster, it won't -- your constructive feedback is what will. I'm asking the Foundry author community to set the example. Again, I'm not a developer, I don't decide what gets changed, but I do pass along feedback and I do happen to agree that something should probably be changed. I care deeply about the Foundry, or I would not spend hours a week/ weekend dedicated to it (forums, spotlight, challenges, playing suggested missions for the spotlight, etc.) -Brandon

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 01-27-2013 at 10:54 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,304
# 17
01-27-2013, 12:50 PM
Quote:
EDIT: KF, that's not what I'm referring to. The 'vocal or "passive aggressive"' posts I'm referring to are the ones in this thread -- the fake "this is the best mission I've ever played" and the whole mission itself. The posts that you and the community have made about how this should not pave the future, "something should change", and feedback about "timid" is great -- this is where you should focus your frustration on. Making missions yourself that are "grinders", as well as the fake "these are great" posts in this thread, as respected authors, is what I'm referring to as "not helping the cause, but contributing to it" -- this is where I would hope you would not focus your frustration on. "Oh, Kirkfat thinks it's okay and plays the mission all the time, and the winner of the Foundry challenge even made one, so I will too," is what players are going to think when they see well-known authors make these posts, and then contribute to the issue. I never saw you guys make "clickie" missions, so why make these ones? If you think that's going to get it fixed faster, it won't -- your constructive feedback is what will. I'm asking the Foundry author community to set the example. Again, I'm not a developer, I don't decide what gets changed, but I do pass along feedback and I do happen to agree that something should probably be changed. I care deeply about the Foundry, or I would not spend hours a week/ weekend dedicated to it (forums, spotlight, challenges, playing suggested missions for the spotlight, etc.) -Brandon
Ok, Brandon.
I hear you.
I get where you are coming from.
I truly even understand your disappointment.
You are indeed asking us to take the high road here.
I'll buy the Kool-Aid.
I'm pulling the mission.
But first I do need to say this ...

You express your disappointment, and I do actually get it.
Now, please understand my disappointment that it took authors getting to this point of frustration before we were even told that it was being looked into. Silence on the matter only reinforces the idea to those like the poster above grindisbaddesign, that these missions are just fine. That the team at Cryptic doesn't see these as bad in any way. Simply stating that it is something that the team has decided to look into sends the message that yeah , you probably didn't intend people to be making millions cheating the system.

I am super thankful for you as a community head around here. I get that you care about the Foundry. Probably more than anyone else at Cryptic or Perfect World. Your care and dedication are appreciated. Please don't misunderstand that.

I would bet that most people are understanding that the rising level of frustration at the state of things, has left us (the author community) wanting to vent. Honestly, when you look at the people that the kinds of posts you are disappointed in are coming from , there is NO DOUBT whatsoever that none of us are serious.

Hell, go play this mission before I pull it.
Everything about it is making a statement.
Here is the final dialog from DJ Gir Aiynd herself
I post it here , because since I am pulling the mission, I don't want this message lost.

---------------------------------------
DJ GIR AIYND
So, this mission took about an hour and 30 minutes to make.

To be clear, the author considers this kind of mission to be an exploit, or cheating, whatever you want to call it, but the people gotta have their loots and fleet marks, whatever. Point is.

1 hour and 30 minutes to make this. Most of the 'grinders' or Loot Dropper missions you find in the game aren't half as involved as even changing maps for you, let alone using a couple triggers.

I appreciate that you need Fleet Marks and Dilithium and Loot. Guess what, So do I. So does every author who spends weeks, sometimes months of time creating custom maps, and custom npcs and sometimes good, sometimes, yes, bad story content.

All I am saying is that a mission like this, more involved than most "grinders" took 1 hour 30 minutes.

Things with far less detail are getting 5 stars.

Please think about that before rating missions like this anything above 3 stars.

5 star ratings should be reserved for missions that leave you feeling like you've just experienced one of your favorite Star Trek episodes ever from the position of the hero of the story.

They should provide you with more than anything fun, and regardless of a reward, shouldn't that be what a GAME is about.

Cheers.
Hope this mission gave you the loots you were looking for.
-------------------------------

Throughout the "mission" I make fun of the things that happen in these missions.
It is designed as a send up of grinders.
Like I said above.
1 person emailed me after playing this, and said they were going to rethink how they rated this sort of thing.
I know you think this was somehow bad.
But that 1 person , to me, means it was worth it.

Maybe I'm just an idealistic old hippie, but I still believe that 1 person changes the world.

Peace


EDIT (to Add) : A special thanks to all of you who got the point and threw me a 1 Star. You rock !
Boo to anyone who tipped me. I feel dirty even touching that dilithium

Last edited by hippiejon; 01-27-2013 at 01:10 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,474
# 18
01-27-2013, 01:13 PM
Quote:
I'm not a developer, I don't decide what gets changed, but I do pass along feedback and I do happen to agree that something should probably be changed. I care deeply about the Foundry, or I would not spend hours a week/ weekend dedicated to it (forums, spotlight, challenges, playing suggested missions for the spotlight, etc.) -Brandon
We know that you care, and we appreciate all that you've done. You've done a lot, given that you aren't a dev or a programmer. I can't imagine where we'd be without you.

I know where the buck stops. That is why I'm skeptical.

Can you confirm whether the rewards system, as described by Stahl in the Primetime UGC interview, is in the works? He described a system where an hour-long mission gives better rewards than a 15-minute grind. He said we'd get it in January.

Instead, we got the current system a few days after that interview, and now the exploits and grinders are out of control.

We need the exploits killed (sorry HippieJohn), and we need a rewards system that is good for authors.

Last edited by kirksplat; 01-27-2013 at 01:16 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,304
# 19
01-27-2013, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
We need the exploits killed (sorry HippieJohn)
Don't know why you'd be sorry. I say nuke them from space. Give all authors with one of these up a week to pull them down on their own before cryptic does it for them.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 490
# 20
01-27-2013, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiejon View Post
EDIT (to Add) : A special thanks to all of you who got the point and threw me a 1 Star. You rock !
Boo to anyone who tipped me. I feel dirty even touching that dilithium
I played the mission earlier and gave you a 3-star. I'm so sorry for that! lol. I Was going to give you a Dil tip but I had a funny feeling that you'd feel that way. So I didn't.

I'm not an author and I'm not your typical grinder but your thread here about the mission made me curious and therefore I had to check it out. You're closing message in the mission opened my eyes quite a bit and I'll be very honest with you when I say this... "I support your and your fellow authors campaign 100%!"

I honestly and wholeheartedly respect all the hard work and time that you guys put into your serious story based missions and strongly believe that something should be done to put an end to these "1 hour or less to make" grind-fest missions that give out so much loot and qualify for the IOR repeatable. They totally defy the purpose of the foundry and the way it stands and works now, is in a lot of ways, disrespectful towards all you fine authors who have put tons of effort, time and creativity into the masterpieces you deliver for us Trek fans!

I truly hope you guys are successful with your campaign here and Cryptic devs step up and do something about it once and for all. And then, you guys will finally gain the exposure and respect that you all more than deserve!

Keep up the great work guys... Respect to you all! Live Long and Prosper!
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