Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 11
01-29-2013, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
The problem with Delta or Beta is they have an extremely short duration and they only apply hull resist debuff not shields (just like disruptor proc).
Delta also provides a hull resist to self/ally, while debuffing whoever is targeting them. This is why it takes second spot after APO for PvP.

APD & APB both have better durations than you suggest because of how they function in that they buff both the user/recipient as well as debuff the Target (APB actually reapplies to the target each time they are hit).

The main issue with their debuffs is that they are cleared easily and frequently by TT, so the window of opportunity is very tight, again why APD shines with it's self/ally hull resistance boost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
I carry both on my escorts though. Beta can be quite useful in situational circumstances...like the shields are down on a tac cube and you got a nice, clean shot. Beta will do more damage than omega at that point.

For STFs Beta is easily the strongest attack pattern, Borg structures do not have shields and beta benefits your entire team, all of their pets, all of their damage abilities be they from Sci powers, consoles, torps, mines, beams, cannons, etc.

Buffing yourself for X% damage vs. buffing 5 players by reducing the target's resistance by X% will always see the debuff pull ahead as it's a force multiplier.

It just requires a more team focused mindset over a selfish one.


I didn't recommend APB to the OP because he is asking about PvP.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Omega has a 10 second uptime, with a 60 second CD
15s uptime.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 01-29-2013 at 08:54 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,342
# 12
01-29-2013, 08:55 AM
APO first. If you have room you get Delta as well. You get Beta if you're part of an active team.

APO is simply the best trainable in the game. Hands down it is the "All in One" button.

Delta is your second choice because it does provide you with at least a hull resist bonus. And you can place it on a team mate. And it will debuff anyone that is attacking whoever has the buff. So it is somewhat more versatile than Beta.

Beta is great when you're getting very good at counting other players or teams buffs, and can place it on a target that isn't going to have a TT available to clear it, and you have a team ready to take advantage of it. So sure, an enemy could clear his Delta debuff OR his Beta debuff, but he CAN'T clear the BUFF that Delta gives to you or to your teammate. And that's why Delta is a bit more versatile.

Two TT's are always a good start as you seem to already know. It is a great way to keep your shields balanced when manual doesn't cut it. So your cruiser could have TTx2, Delta, Omega.

Just two of the same or two different Emergency Power abilities. That's sufficient to keep very high power levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erPP8gt4X7M That's a Bortas but in there you will find a very cheap Doff scheme to inflate power levels a bit. It works off of the 'two different' idea.

Anyhoo's thats a start for your cruiser. You've likely noticed its lite on Sci and so far your only out from the defensive crit death called Tractor Beams is omega. So you may want to keep the PH. That leaves HE as required for clearing the SECOND defensive crit death known as Warp Plasma. Be REALLY sure not to waste those two abilites on general heals or resists. Keep those things in mind. Keep the usage of TT in mind. Go play with a friend, have a ball, and maybe hit up the PVP forum. I hear they have some sort of boot camp or something.

Cheers!!
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,342
# 13
01-29-2013, 09:10 AM
Omega has a 10 second uptime, with a 60 second CD

Beta has a 15 second uptime (20 if you land a hit as it expires), with a 30 second CD.

Delta has a 15 second uptime (20 if you get hit as it expires), with a 45 second CD.

From an uptime perspective Omega is the worst of the three.[/quote]

Really? It's as if you're in some entirely different thread, commenting on some entirely different subject. On a guess I'd say that subject was "pick an ability with the greatest uptime".

If you really just don't know what you're talking about, it's ok to just read and learn. All of these patterns have situations where they could be extremely useful. In both PVP and PVE. And the consideration of UPTIME would be somewhere close to the bottom of the list of metrics that you would weigh.

One of those patterns requies a high degree of team cooperation to be at its finest in PVE or PVP. That would be Beta. Here's a fun bit of math for you. "How many guys do I need shooting at a target with a hull debuff, if that target still has shields to match the damage increase over myself just using Omega?" I bet its more than one!

Delta shares that limitatation, but it does offer something of a buff that can be used on ANY player, not just a coordinated team. So in a free for all prefer that to Beta.

And Omega is quite frankly a Key part of any alpha strike. And it provides the best combined defense, movement, and damage buff in the game. A ship using omega isn't sucking up a lot of heals and resists from healers. That's a part of team play from the most organized down to free for all.

Glad I could help.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 14
01-29-2013, 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
Quote:
Omega has a 10 second uptime, with a 60 second CD

Beta has a 15 second uptime (20 if you land a hit as it expires), with a 30 second CD.

Delta has a 15 second uptime (20 if you get hit as it expires), with a 45 second CD.

From an uptime perspective Omega is the worst of the three.
Really? It's as if you're in some entirely different thread, commenting on some entirely different subject. On a guess I'd say that subject was "pick an ability with the greatest uptime".

If you really just don't know what you're talking about, it's ok to just read and learn. All of these patterns have situations where they could be extremely useful. In both PVP and PVE. And the consideration of UPTIME would be somewhere close to the bottom of the list of metrics that you would weigh.

One of those patterns requies a high degree of team cooperation to be at its finest in PVE or PVP. That would be Beta. Here's a fun bit of math for you. "How many guys do I need shooting at a target with a hull debuff, if that target still has shields to match the damage increase over myself just using Omega?" I bet its more than one!

Delta shares that limitatation, but it does offer something of a buff that can be used on ANY player, not just a coordinated team. So in a free for all prefer that to Beta.

And Omega is quite frankly a Key part of any alpha strike. And it provides the best combined defense, movement, and damage buff in the game. A ship using omega isn't sucking up a lot of heals and resists from healers. That's a part of team play from the most organized down to free for all.

Glad I could help.
Read the post:

Quote:
From an uptime perspective
If that kind of distinction is too complicated for you to understand, why should anyone actually listen to anything you have to say? I made zero quality judgements about anything other than the uptime versus cooldown ratios of the three abilities, and even then only in response to someone else making an error ridden statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post

15s uptime.
You are correct sir, typo on my part.

Last edited by stirling191; 01-29-2013 at 09:21 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,342
# 15
01-29-2013, 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Read the post:



If that kind of distinction is too complicated for you to understand, why should anyone actually listen to anything you have to say? I made zero quality judgements about anything other than the uptime versus cooldown ratios of the three abilities.
If that kind of distinction actually has any type of value for you, you need to reasses your ability to make judgements as a player. You did make a zero quality judgement and contributed zero to this thread. If you can't or wont make meaningful posts, just stop.

Do you understand that? I understood your distinction. Your distinction sucked.
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# 16
01-29-2013, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
If that kind of distinction actually has any type of value for you, you need to reasses your ability to make judgements as a player. You did make a zero quality judgement and contributed zero to this thread. If you can't or wont make meaningful posts, just stop.

Do you understand that? I understood your distinction. Your distinction sucked.
Do you actually have something to add, or would you prefer to just piss on anyone who puts forth a piece of evidence or information that you don't like?

Uptime considerations absolutely have to be taken into consideration when it comes to ability choice. Is it going to be a deciding factor in most cases? Probably not. But it is definitely something to look at.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,342
# 17
01-29-2013, 09:35 AM
Not in this case it isn't. So stick to the topic. I'm sure in some OTHER discussion you may have a point. And as to you saying you were responding to an "error ridden post" sure okay. You're a white knight. The guy was referencing duration. You came back with uptime. With incorrect values I might add. So sure. You're a little helper bee. So you're off topic just for starts. And you're wrong. You had a shot to say...."Oh hell yes this isn't what this thread is about!" and to move along. You should take that shot now. Move along.

If you don't know what you're talking about, and your FIRST idea in a thread is to correct someone, and I'm looking at YOU, maybe you want to rethink your strat.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 18
01-29-2013, 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
Not in this case it isn't. So stick to the topic. I'm sure in some OTHER discussion you may have a point. And as to you saying you were responding to an "error ridden post" sure okay. You're a white knight. The guy was referencing duration. You came back with uptime. With incorrect values I might add. So sure. You're a little helper bee. So you're off topic just for starts. And you're wrong. You had a shot to say...."Oh hell yes this isn't what this thread is about!" and to move along. You should take that shot now. Move along.

If you don't know what you're talking about, and your FIRST idea in a thread is to correct someone, and I'm looking at YOU, maybe you want to rethink your strat.
So it's okay for you to ride in and throw ideas around, yet someone else can't point out factual discrepancies without being off-topic and disruptive. Good to know.

Oh, and nice of you to completely ignore the errors I, and at least one other poster so far, have pointed out in the post I was replying to. Really adds credence to your whole "I know better than you so I'm going to rant at and insult you because you brought up a point that I feel is not important" bit.

Do you actually have something useful to add? If not, there are some new posts over in the PvP board for you to go ***** at.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 120
# 19
01-29-2013, 09:50 AM
From a carrier perspective: consider AP Beta. Its one of the few ways to buff pet damage.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 844
# 20
01-29-2013, 10:19 AM
Lymuv is correct other guy are you on non prescription drugs

Uptime has little to do with the quality of the attack pattern

Especially when one give immunity to movement debuffs speed and turn buff damage buff and damage resistance buff which in pvp is priceless regardless of duration
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====----
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