Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,538
# 231
01-29-2013, 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadnax View Post
Not to me. Part of the reward is the enjoyment I get from a good story mission. I like the added dilithium and fleet marks because I use them and don't particularly enjoy a lot of the content that generally rewards them. Running the same Fleet events repeatedly is monotonous, and I'm not fond of STFs in general.

With the wrapper I still receive dilithium and fleet marks, albeit at a much slower pace, from doing content that I enjoy.
what I was getting at was the idea of scaling the reward based on the time you spend enjoying the story. As-is you get twice as much from doing 2 15 minute missions as 1 30 min mission. 30 is still in the low end for actual story missions though. Some are well over an hour. My proposal was simply to make the reward scale to time spent.
Quote:
If players want the loot of 25 boss battles, they need to fight 25 bosses. If you disagree with that statement, then it's because you feel entitled to get something for doing nothing.
This I agree with wholeheartedly.
HAIL HYDRA!

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I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 12,538
# 232
01-29-2013, 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadnax View Post
This is perhaps the most salient issue. Grinders are so fast and easy to make that they are flooding the search screen, making it very difficult to find the story missions.

This is a legitimate concern for Foundry authors and story players. It's not elitism, it's not really a "my stuff is better than yours" issue (although posters from both sides fall prey to making these types of comments sometimes), it's an issue of glut and making searching tedious. It can and does turn some players away who are interested in playing Foundry missions.

Admittedly, I don't understand the need for so many grinders that do essentially the same thing. Wouldn't a relative handful accomplish the same purpose (perhaps covering a variety of aspects important to those who run them)? This is primarily with regard to grinders with enemies that don't shoot back, not actual combat grinders. I can see wanting to run different combat scenarios for variety.

(This question is not an effort to be a jerk, but truly one of curiosity.)
If they're by different authors, then it's possible the authors want to try getting dil from tips...
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,413
# 233
01-29-2013, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
I wouldn't consider them either as no one in reality tips for a grinder mission, I know the person who made Chaos Battleground Royal Rumble and he received about 600 dilith in total.

I think people make them in the hopes of getting tips. Which may well be pointless because if Kirksplat is right that people want something for nothing they are hardly the paying type are they?
My piece of trash grinder to prove a point was up for less than 20 hours and people tipped more than 2000 dilithium in that time. Your argument doesn't hold up in my experience.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,758
# 234
01-29-2013, 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiejon View Post
My piece of trash grinder to prove a point was up for less than 20 hours and people tipped more than 2000 dilithium in that time. Your argument doesn't hold up in my experience.
You know, what's sad is that both my missions have, between them, netted me that much in Dilithium tips to this day; but they've both been up since before the Tip System was instituted

(That said, I appreciate every tip, and have continued to receive a little here and there - and that's still saying something with the demand Dilithium is in these days.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 235
01-29-2013, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiejon View Post
My piece of trash grinder to prove a point was up for less than 20 hours and people tipped more than 2000 dilithium in that time. Your argument doesn't hold up in my experience.
In which case people clearly aren't getting something for nothing they are paying for it.

Though I could see how this could be easily engineered by other foundry authors noting you're trying to prove a point and tipping you on purpose.

Unfortunately your experiment is not up to rigor you'd need to have several unknown users create grinders and monitor how much they make in order to even get a half way validated piece of empirical data.

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 01-29-2013 at 04:51 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,038
# 236
01-29-2013, 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
In which case people clearly aren't getting something for nothing they are paying for it.
You are just grasping for any possible argument here. That's like saying, "The waitress gave me free food and some $$$ from the cash register. I didn't have to pay my bill. But, I left her a nice tip, so that means that I was paying for it."

Please answer this question: Why should you be allowed to instakill 25 boss mobs, fill your inventory with blues and greens, and go sell the stuff for 500k ECs.... when you did virtually nothing to earn those ECs?
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 237
01-29-2013, 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
You are just grasping for any possible argument here. That's like saying, "The waitress gave me free food and some $$$ from the cash register. I didn't have to pay my bill. But, I left her a nice tip, so that means that I was paying for it."

Please answer this question: Why should you be allowed to instakill 25 boss mobs, fill your inventory with blues and greens, and go sell the stuff for 500k ECs.... when you did virtually nothing to earn those ECs?
Why not is my answer to your question, is there any rule in EULA or from Cryptics official communication that this is not allowed?. At the moment the reality and fact is you are allowed and people are doing it. The reason why they are doing it is an economic pressure to do so and is in no way connected to the success or failure of any story foundry mission you make.

Furthermore even if they removed the loot drops people would still run them, if they removed the wrapper people would go elsewhere.

But above all those people would still not play your story missions. You seem to assume that like most record companies do that everyone who is currently not buying your product will if you cut off their alternative. This is simply not the case.

No matter what vendetta you have against passive grinder or clickies or whatever else you will not see an increase in users playing your stories by removing them. Can you honestly say you saw an increase in people who previously used clikies playing your stories after the clickies were removed?

What i see here is misdirected rage and frustration, so answer me a question or two... In what way are these passive grinder missions doing any damage to story missions? and if you believe they are.. In what way are they doing more damage than active grinder missions that you are fine with?

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 01-29-2013 at 05:11 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,038
# 238
01-29-2013, 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
snip
So you're saying an exploit is not an exploit because it's possible to do it. What is your definition of an exploit?
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 239
01-29-2013, 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
So you're saying an exploit is not an exploit because it's possible to do it. What is your definition of an exploit?
Please re-read the post I added to it.


With regards to an exploit, it is only such if the development group that make the software announce it as such. Have they done so?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,038
# 240
01-29-2013, 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
Please re-read the post I added to it.


With regards to an exploit, it is only such if the development group that make the software announce it as such. Have they done so?
So if there is a place in a video game where a player can use a bug, glitch, or design flaw to skip a level, get free gear, and save the princess, it's not really an exploit if the devs of the game don't announce: "Hey, you're not supposed to to do that!"

This is really what you are saying?
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