Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,366
# 251
01-29-2013, 06:07 PM
thisisoverlord : In what way are these passive grinder missions doing any damage to story missions?

Look at it from the point of view of an author who understands that a large portion of the playerbase does not even understand how to search the list. All they see at the top are the grinder missions.

Someone new who comes to the Foundry looking for story with an incomplete understanding of the search tool, will not be able to find the missions they are looking for, and leave.

and if you believe they are.. In what way are they doing more damage than active grinder missions that you are fine with?

They are doing more damage because these , I call them pinatas now, far outnumber even the legitimate grinder missions. It's pure arithmetic. There are just SO many of them, that


Honestly, I have said it multiple times, I have no problem with someone reaching that drop limit on elite actually fighting their way through a grinder mission, wave after wave, and returning home with the spoils. Heck, I can even see how that would be fun.

Peace
I gotta go play some tabletop superheroes now.
Try not to kill each other while I'm gone, okay.

Seriously, if everyone, myself included, would just take a step back.
I think we have all made our cases known at this point and we are arguing the same thing again and again to the point that we have stopped listening to each other.

We all love this game, obviously. Listen to how passionately we are arguing about it.
lets put some of that passion toward working together to find a solution that can be acceptable and not hurt anyone.

Hark, I hear Freedom City calling me. I can converse no longer.

Start playing nice , or I'll activate my signal watch and call the Big red S.

Night All
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 252
01-29-2013, 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
My best guess is that the current code looks at the rank of an enemy, then goes to a loot table to decide what to drop. There does seem to be more than this, though, but not a lot. I'd just add a check that skips going to the loot table if it's a timid creature.

It would definately be more work than simply disabling that behaviour.
As I said this is immaterial anyways as one can create environmental effects that remove shielding. Several of the older grinders use this method.

Disabling this feature does nothing and for no good reason too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiejon View Post
snip
Simply put your problem is with the UI, not the grinders.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 844
# 253
01-29-2013, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
Simply put your problem is with the UI, not the grinders.
I actually agree with this. Changing the UI to have two options that are automatically visible, one for shorter missions (less than 30 minutes) and one for longer missions (greater than 30 minutes), would solve the vast majority of our complaints.

Later on that could possibly be changed to include different categories selected in the Foundry editor. But in the short term all we need are two UI tabs, using search criteria based on time.


Click here for my Foundry tutorial on Creating A Custom Interior Map.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,941
# 254
01-29-2013, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
This will fail,





So lets remove the emotion from this I understand you put a lot of work into your missions, not only that you put a lot of effort into offering up tutorials for others. I understand this, but I also understand something about art, you can put in 100 hours on a painting and you may find I beautiful those in your sphere of the artworld may find it beautiful but that doesn't mean the majority of people will.

The truth is the grinders be they passive or active will always be more popular because the majority of the playerbase don't care about your story missions nor ever will because they playing the agenda that cryptic have set out for them, grind till you drop. Indeed many of them still wouldn't bother with story missions even if this wasn't the case.

Even if you removed the passive grinders today the active ones would find their way to the top of the list. The reality is you don't have a problem with the grinders you have a problem with the way foundry missions are presented to the user, it's a UI issue.
No, it will not fail. Go ahead and try to take on 25 battleship 03 mobs placed in one spot with nebula in place. No, just try 10. It won't matter if you have the best of the best gear. You will explode, and the ships will break formation to attack you, thus they won't all explode due to the splash damage. Maybe 1 or 2 might, but in no time you'll find yourself on a map being swarmed by 20 battleships.

And please count the number of active grinders in the top rated. You know, the ones like mine where a player has to actually battle the bosses. Aside from a few accolade grinders, I don't see very many.

I don't care if the active ones do find their way to the top. They, at least, would be legit uses of the Foundry for build tests and fleet training. But, I don't think the thing will be clogged with exploits.

Last edited by kirksplat; 01-29-2013 at 06:24 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 255
01-29-2013, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
No, it will not fail. Go ahead and try to take on 25 battleship 03 mobs placed in one spot with nebula in place. No, just try 10. I won't matter if you have the best of the best gear. You will explode, and the ships will break formation to attack you.

And please count the number of active grinders in the top rated. You know, the ones like mine where a player has to actually battle the bosses. Aside from a few accolade grinders, I don't see very many.

I don't care if the active ones do find their way to the top. They, at least, would be legit uses of the Foundry for build tests and fleet training. But, I don't think the thing will be clogged with exploits.
It already works, I know one filled with Klingon Battleships that an ISO charge will set off easily especially with much smaller ships around them. Yes you'll die but they die too, they are also all pathed to a central point which they keep flying back to like some pseudo grav well which means they get chained to death.

So no, this change will make no difference as people had already found innovative ways before this.

The truth is you know that it doesn't matter if active or passive grinders exist or not, what matters is if they impede on the visibility of the story missions you create therefore the issue is with the UI and search engine.

Last edited by thisisoverlord; 01-29-2013 at 06:24 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,941
# 256
01-29-2013, 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisisoverlord View Post
It already works, I know one filled with Klingon Battleships that an ISO charge will set off easily especially with much smaller ships around them. Yes you'll die but they die too, they are also all pathed to a central point which they keep flying back to like some pseudo grav well which means they get chained to death.

So no, this change will make no difference as people had already found innovative ways before this.

The truth is you know that it doesn't matter if active or passive grinders exist or not, what matters is if they impede on the visibility of the story missions you create therefore the issue is with the UI and search engine.
The battleships are the ones that drop the good loot. Stop telling me what I know. It totally matters. That is why they are set to timid. That is why timid is the exploit. They only fly back to the spot well after you are dead.

Last edited by kirksplat; 01-29-2013 at 06:28 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 953
# 257
01-29-2013, 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirksplat View Post
The battleships are the ones that drop the good loot. Stop telling me what I know. It totally matters. That is why they are set to timid. That is why timid is the exploit.
As I said there are number of missions out there they don't use timid and simply bunch active battleships together that you can chain kill.

One of the oldest grinder missions that actually existed even when the clickies were around uses this method.

It's called

Blast Test Dummie.

seek it out and play it, though be prepared repair if you try it on elite.

And as you know it totally doesn't matter because grinding was going on long before people learned to use timid... and most of those missions with active ships almost as easy and last about as long. It only became an issue when it impeded upon the visibility of Story Missions, so the solution doesn't lie in disabling bits of the foundry but in creating a UI that protects story assets.

The UI solution benefits everyone disabling bits of the foundry or trying to get grinders banned will benefit little if anyone.


EDIT: And this thread is also done. -Brandon

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 01-31-2013 at 10:25 AM.
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