Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,032
# 11
01-29-2013, 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
Actually... this sort of thing was brought up in Zone chat when the 2800 series was released. Someone did math and figured out that, at that moment, there was a total of around 300-500 players in DS9, Beta Ursae, and Bajor put together. The suggestion was that we could(purely from a story perspective) have a massive fleet of 300 players take on the entire 2800 Dominion ships and probably win...
That number falls horribly short of what was actually there.
I had a screenshot until recently of the DS9 system zone chat that had shown players talking from zone #2503. This was hanging outside around DS9, not on the stattion doing Second wave at that time. The DS9 zone insyance can hold up to 75 characters. Assuming that those 2503 zones averaged to being half full, about 37 players each, that would have been 92,611 ships just hanging out around the station.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,592
# 12
01-30-2013, 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarkirian View Post
That number falls horribly short of what was actually there.
I had a screenshot until recently of the DS9 system zone chat that had shown players talking from zone #2503. This was hanging outside around DS9, not on the stattion doing Second wave at that time. The DS9 zone insyance can hold up to 75 characters. Assuming that those 2503 zones averaged to being half full, about 37 players each, that would have been 92,611 ships just hanging out around the station.
Really? that many? Awesome! Maybe I misremembered and was only thinking of Bajor space? I dunno.

Either way it was rather ironic that the story was about a fleet too large to simply fight and there was in fact enough players to do it...
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Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,906
# 13
01-30-2013, 06:55 AM
But, you know ... I would rather not be "able" to do this is the lag makes it ultimately unplayable. I'll bet there is a Titan captain over there throwing a hissy fit over that reason.

It's not worth it.

And having played EO, it takes a special brand of MMO player to succeed there ... I'm not it. Good luck to those who are.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,329
# 14
01-30-2013, 07:10 AM
This interview:
http://www.accessdenied-sto.com/viewpage.php?page_id=15
... sais that STO now has more than 2 million "captains". I don't know if that means more than 2 million players (wouldn't surprise me) or just 2 million player characters, but... imagine a battle with all of those in one instance... Possibly plus PvE opponents... *that* would be an anti-Borg battle... and I think in a not too distant future (5 years?9, a game like this could handle it.

Comparing STO to Eve Online isn't going to work, though, for a myriad of reasons.
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Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,516
# 15
01-30-2013, 08:03 AM
The intention was not to say "EO Haz 3000 player battles I WANT 3000 PLAYER BATTLES IN STO!!!". Rather, it was to say "If EO can stay up and be playable with a 3000 player battle going on, why has STO been plagued with stability problems with less concentrated player load?".

As far as I know, even with that battle going on, the rest of the game was perfectly stable. Compare that to what happened last night! Granted, all MMO games have problems like that from time to time, but it seems to have been happening more and more regularly as of late.

I must admit however, that a CE like fleet action against a borg fusion cube from ST: Armada would be fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 873
# 16
01-30-2013, 08:14 AM
This would be awesome in STO... I doubt it could ever happen. Take the 20 man starbase fleet defence for example.. lag city
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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 307
# 17
01-30-2013, 08:18 AM
They slowed down the servers to 10% tickrate.
Effectively there were only 300 people fighting at once.
And that's not too uncommon with some other games - altho I admit the server normally crashes or the like.

He's dead, Jim.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 773
# 18
01-30-2013, 08:28 AM
There is a reason that Eve was stable with that much lag in one system and maybe why STO has such problems. First though, for those who don't know, both games are set up very differently in their "instances." STO has multiple instances for each area of the game, so its like they are stacked on top of each other. Eve has one instance for each area of space, and that area changes depending on the load on it. So if STO had this it would be like there would be one instance for ESD that connected to another instance for SOL, but everyone in the game that was in ESD would be able to see each other.

So in the case in Eve with this massive battle, they could have crashed that instance, and as long as no one else tried to enter the area that server was handling, no one would know. No this works for eve because the area in question, a whole solar system, is HUGE compared to anything in STO, so even when you are in an instance, chances are you don't have to render everything because its so far away you can't see it.

Now, like I said, in Eve, they have one mini server dedicated to each area, which is why parts of the game can crash and not affect the whole (unless something really goes wrong). But I don't know how STO is set up. Do they have a server for each instance, or do the servers swap out space with each other depending on how much space each instance is using? Would be kinda interesting if a dev could answer questions like that, if nothing else for tech geeks.
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Commander
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 273
# 19
01-30-2013, 08:32 AM
Except of course the "Launcher problem" may not have had anything to do with a "game server", it was most likely as network / routing issue. That's not saying they PWE doesn't own the network segment that the problem was on. But we have no way of telling if it was PWE or the network carrier that the effected people were going through.

The "Can't retrieve map list" and the Chat server going down later, that was most likely a STO problem.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 887
# 20
01-30-2013, 08:41 AM
I would like to see more open-ness in STO for sure. I think one of Cryptics long term goals is to have one single star map, will all sectors in it right? If they could find a way to have single instances for every star system like in EVE that would be cool, but I would understand if that's not possible.

I played EVE for about 3 years. I can imagine how bad the lag would have been with 3000 people. There were times I experienced bad lag in Jita (big trade hub) when there were around 1000 people there. They eventually fixed it so certain star systems, like Jita, had queues but they were still laggy.

I left because EVE had 2 problems I couldn't resolve myself with. One was the skill system, I hate time-based skill learning. I want to get better at flying a ship by flying a ship, not sitting around in space-dock waiting for a timer. Second, I hate jump gates. EVE has open PVP which I have no problem with in theory, but you need an open world with some ability to play hide and seek if you allow that. In EVE everyone has to use jump gates to move from one sector to the next, and you are a sitting duck after you jump. This means 90% of PVP in EVE is gate-camping (and I stand by that - 9/10 times I died it was a gate camp). That's not fun at all. If you had to work to find your prey, by scanning them down with probes, or following ion trails, or scanning for cloaked vessels, it would be cool. But with EVE's limited FTL mechanic, it end up just being a camp-fest.

STO has a more open and reaslistic FTL mechanic, and a better skill system, IMO. It's not perfect, and has room for improvement, but is a more balanced game and more enjoyable to play.
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