Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,354
# 41
01-30-2013, 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
Maybe we should just stop running non-escorts all together.

But on a serious note, if these FED escorts were to get buffed, we need much better escort options KDF side. If you think that fed scorts can't compete, take a look at their KDF counterparts. Giving the Defiant an ideal Setup, should only happen if we get ideal fleet options for cruisers, sci ships, carriers, and raiders in the fleet store as well. aka fleet voq'uv = recluse etc.
As i hardly ever play klingons, i could not comment on the klingon state of affairs. I know where game knowledge ends
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,075
# 42
01-30-2013, 03:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
The bug ship does need balancing with the rest of the fleet escorts although the gap isnt as big as it used to be.
Before anyone says anything, i own this ship as well as the fleet mvam and the fleet defiant so i am comparing the top 3 escorts side by side.
As mentioned earlier, its superior in every way almost. If a good pilot flys all three in any match, the bug would do better full stop. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

Maybe another way of balancing things is to not "nerf" the bug, but to buff the fleet escorts in way of defiant getting a slight turn buff and a universal ensign. This in my opinion would make it a seriously viable alternative.
The fleet mvam is almost there but just misses the mark. Maybe just a universal low tier station and voila. The bug grudges are gone

This would give the unlucky folks a very viable alternative.

At the same time its a win for cryptic in way of people dropping zen to get the modules to unlock the ships. Everyones a winner.
making more escorts bug like is an alarmingly bad idea imo. either nerf the turn rate to 18 or so, or nerf the shield mod and hitpoints. such a disposable craft has no business being the tankiest escort, even out tanking half the cruisers with its combo of speed and stats, its absurd.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,255
# 43
01-30-2013, 04:23 AM
some of this "bug-ship" thingie made me thought:
where's the steamrunner mentioned? as for me i think it outclasses the bug in performance. i've no prob with the bug the way it is (nor with the steamrunner or any other ship except the gal-x)...

also i don't see all your probs with tt. i think it's the ability that in the first place makes pvp possible in general for many players. i don't want to live in a world where that is getting nerfed ...
i don't think it's "powerful" like buffed vm f.e.... it affect's me, not my enemy. it does not heal me or such beside the cleansing, it just distributes my shields and leaves an 5sec gap after 10sec (long time in pvp)...
many escorts don't even care about tt when on alpha strike (more damageoutput than the enemy can heal shields/tt distributes shieldstrength, so rsp becomes the counter ^^)...
just a thought: without tt escorts would be even more superior than they are now, cause of their damage output and turnrate...
if you only can pack 1, take 2 purple doffs. on some of my builds i do it that way and it's just fine.
if you ask me the distribution effect should be automatic and without the need of an ability... it's 2400+, so don't tell me my lil computercore can't distribute shield sidings ^^ ...

...but: no offense! i just do think that something like tt is absolutely needed to create enjoyable pvp for everyone, not only hardcore pros.

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Last edited by wast33; 01-30-2013 at 04:53 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,354
# 44
01-30-2013, 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
making more escorts bug like is an alarmingly bad idea imo. either nerf the turn rate to 18 or so, or nerf the shield mod and hitpoints. such a disposable craft has no business being the tankiest escort, even out tanking half the cruisers with its combo of speed and stats, its absurd.
I was thinking more along the lines of escort role effectivity. Agreed about the fact that escorts shouldn't be able to tank like a cruiser. That aspect of an escort definately needs addressing overall. Not just a bug issue. They should be more towards the glass cannon end of the spectrum.
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 45
01-30-2013, 04:37 AM
also maybe we can fix sci team? that 5 sec duration does not work. it should be an immune to all sci debuffs for 5 secs, including subnuke then maybe take a look at tact team. we all know its way too good and i mean come on its tact team. atm it works as a defense team. the small buff to weps is nothing compared to how its really used. getting hit by rapid fire? tt.

Last edited by broken1981; 01-30-2013 at 04:40 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 710
# 46
01-30-2013, 04:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
also maybe we can fix sci team? that 5 sec duration does not work. it should be an immune to all sci debuffs for 5 secs, including subnuke then maybe take a look at tact team. we all know its way too good and i mean come on its tact team. atm it works as a defense team. the small buff to weps is nothing compared to how its really used. getting hit by rapid fire? tt.
Heh...so you want to nerf tact team, the only real defence against getting obliterated by dhcs, even if you have epts cycling, ph cycling, aux2 sif on and tss cycling with a side order of extend shields?

Methinks I sense a heavy dhc user, be it escort, bop, raptor or freakish halfbreed ship
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,115
# 47
01-30-2013, 05:30 AM
i dont think its a good idea to nerf the bug, esp considering how much ppl paid for some of them. want to prove to everyone that $ spent on sto was flushed down the drain? nerf the bugs.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 460
# 48
01-30-2013, 05:43 AM
Ok I'm no PvP God but I can see certain issues that effect PvP Balance.

.:Tactical Team:.

1. reading through the thread I notice that Tactical Team was mentioned, this bridge officer skill does infact impede the overall offensive capability of certain Science and Engineer ships.
2. using Tactical Team and or having two copies does give Debuffer/Healer Science and Engineer specific Captains the ability to survive for longer and do their specific Job, granted that PvP queues are team based and Healers/Debuffers etc would requires the ability to heal themselves and their team.
3. regarding PvP for balance Tactical Team does present that it is an unrivaled healing ability and is a requirement to be successful in PvP. this should not be the case.

Improvised Fix.
X1. Tactical Team should take away from non-facing shields and replace it in the facing shield. plus considering the rate in which Tactical Team Regenerates the facing shield, I think the drain from the non-facing shields should equal it.


.:Space/Ground Equiped Duty Officers:.
I believe this is an issue that should be discussed.

1. The ability to have multiple of the same Duty Officers is quite unbalanced.
2. There are discussions about nerfing Duty Officers and getting rid of Duty Officers like for example the subnucleonic beam Duty Officer. due to their ability to reduce the timer on the ability, clearly if the timer is reduced so much by multiple of the same Duty Officer, it DOES become an Issue.
3. having Multiple of the same Duty Officer is just down right absurd! not everyone has the expendable EC/Zen to gain multiple of the same.

Improvised Fix.
X. limit the ammount of the same duty officer are able to be equipped to either only 2 or 1.


.:Escorts.Vs.Science.Vs.Cruisers:.

1. My favorite argument that I have with my in-game friends... Hull Points.
2. ... let me explain

Ok a quick little points system.
Low = 5
Medium = 10
High = 15

Science - Hull=Low / Damage=Medium = 15
Cruiser - Hull=High / Damage=low = 20
Escorts - Hull=Medium / Damage=High = 25
Issue?
I'm avoiding the shield mod as this negates the results mainly because even with shield mods, each individual chooses their own shield, covariant/resilient/regenerate.

plus the shield mod doesn't really show much in the way of difference like Hull Points and DPS.
Base Stats show "estimating" Science 25-30k hull/Escort 30k-40k+ Hull / Cruisers 40k-50K plus.
Shields generally only really seem to give 3-5k increases depending on the ships mod and the shield.
soo if I do a little bit more points systems!

for the shield Mods I'll halve each of the points above
Low = 2.5
Medium = 5.0
High 7.5
(same as before for the Hull and Damage)

Science - Hull=Low / Damage=Medium / Shield=high = 22.5
Cruiser - Hull=High / Damage=low / Shield=medium = 25.0
Escorts - Hull=Medium / Damage=High /Shield=low = 27.5

still not as drastic as before but clearly Escorts are still ahead.

My personal issue with this.
even when Escorts lose thier Shields... it is still near improbable for regular science vessels/cruisers to finish those escorts off. Escorts should not be the Kings Of PvP.

the argument I get from my Escort friends is... Science vessels have a higher shield Mod... yes we do... but when does my 1.2/3/4 shield mod give me 10k more shield than you??
Yes I have a higher regeneration, but even then my regeneration over 6 seconds is still banjax regens the same rate as a turret deals DPS.


.:ANY Mines that when one crits... they all crit:.
1. as mentioned in this thread there needs to be seperate rolls for each individual mine.
2. to be winning against a ship only be blown out of the water by crit crazy mines is an Issue and OP.

X. Have each mine have their own probability matrix for crit'ing!


My Tuppence
RachelJ88

P.S. - I have no issues with so called P2W ships, what makes them Dangerous is YOU! you the Captain.
I've battled BoP's that have wiped the floor with me, I've battled Bugships that have perished by my hand.
and equally the same in reverse Bugships that have crushed me and BoP's that have pop's!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 819
# 49
01-30-2013, 05:50 AM
My biggest beefs are holds and disables. There are way to many of them and the counters are either available easy for ships that already have all the advantages, escorts, or only on very long cooldowns, cruisers.

Disables ans holds are a disease to all games these days that should be eradicated.

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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,192
# 50
01-30-2013, 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tehbubbaloo View Post
i dont think its a good idea to nerf the bug, esp considering how much ppl paid for some of them. want to prove to everyone that $ spent on sto was flushed down the drain? nerf the bugs.
You think the people in early recruitment program that got Galaxy-X dread are happy ? Or people like me, with collection of TNG ships I bought, while I was still paying sub ? Hey my money also was flushed down the drain. Some of those ships not even have fixed skins in three years.

If JHAS is OP, and it is, it should be adjusted. It has no weakness and in every aspect it is stronger than other escorts.
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