Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 191
09-18-2009, 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrceval View Post
Cadets and Ensigns would not be given command of a ship, and everyone in STO will have their own ship. It makes perfect sense to start as a Lt.
Starting as a Cadet at the academy would provide the perfect environment for a tutorial. Most of the training can happen though Holodeck simulations.

Upon graduation, your first assignment could be aboard a station where you are often sent on an array of missions using the station runabouts. You don't absolutely have to have your own ship the very first minute of gaming to make it interesting. As a matter of fact, it's my opinion that this will ruin the experience for me.

The Star Trek Experience should be started from the beginning, not the end of your career.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 192
09-19-2009, 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher_nemo View Post
Ability > Power

After all, what good would it do to be the master of phaser weapons if you're on a ground mission where you need to bypass security on a phaser-proof door lock or keep an NPC alive while an army of mobs is running at him or her?
Yep... but two things:

1. Being a jack-of-all-trades implies not needing other characters -- a good generalist is capable of soloing most content. So MMORPG designers would only permit jack-of-all-trades characters if they want people soloing their game... and for whatever reason, that's not always the case.

2. Some games tolerate jack-of-all-trades characters. But I can't think of a single MMORPG that offers content that is specifically aimed at rewarding the jack-of-all-trades playing style. There's plenty of "high-end" content for the level-maxing folks that is off-limits to jack-of-all-trades characters. But no game designer ever makes content that only the jack-of-all-trades character can enjoy.

So. Knowing these two things -- that soloing might be tolerated but not encouraged, and that being a jack-of-all-trades usually means never being able to experience the game's high-end content -- should we be able to choose that path in Star Trek Online?

I liked my Master Artisan/Scout/Pistoleer/Merchant/Creature Handler in SWG. I never, ever saw the inside of a single one of SWG's "dungeons" because I made the choice not to hyperspecialize my character in one of the combat professions. On the other hand, I could dip lightly into pretty much every area of content the game had to offer. Depending on what I felt like doing, I could craft high-quality vehicles, buy and sell stuff, harvest resources, defend myself from common enemies, ride pets, play music, shoot pirates in space, or just plain go sight-seeing. Running a jack-of-all-trades character meant I wasn't locked into doing the same thing every night, or forced to maintain a stable of alts.

So I was limited in the depth of the content I could experience in SWG. But had access to a greater breadth of content.

That seemed like fun to me. The question is, would it seem like enough fun to enough other people to design STO to permit or even reward it?

--Flatfingers
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 193
09-19-2009, 07:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connelli View Post
Starting as a Cadet at the academy would provide the perfect environment for a tutorial. Most of the training can happen though Holodeck simulations.

Upon graduation, your first assignment could be aboard a station where you are often sent on an array of missions using the station runabouts. You don't absolutely have to have your own ship the very first minute of gaming to make it interesting. As a matter of fact, it's my opinion that this will ruin the experience for me.

The Star Trek Experience should be started from the beginning, not the end of your career.
I tend to agree, but I am not going to say it will ruin my experience.

You can please part of the people all the time, all the people part of the time, but never all the people all the time. Just look for the positives and recommend improvements if you see a flaw... that is generally the way I look at it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 194
09-19-2009, 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Cid
I tend to agree, but I am not going to say it will ruin my experience.

You can please part of the people all the time, all the people part of the time, but never all the people all the time. Just look for the positives and recommend improvements if you see a flaw... that is generally the way I look at it.
And i agree with you on this subject El_Cid. You can never please everyone on any given choice, but there are times when the compromises are too broad and these choices, given a little perspective, will lead to unforeseen dead ends.

I would be disappointed to see this problem unaddressed. Imagine the impasse you find yourself in if, as a developer, you let this issue pass. You end up having to correct the situation by gaping the hole instead of properly filling it with content.

What would you think if everyone of your characters started the game in the same fashion: "You start as an Ensign aboard a ship, patrolling the human/klingon border. Your ship is ambushed by Klingons. During the fight that ensues, your vessel is severely damaged and most of the senior crew, including the captain, dies. Through some act of scripted heroism, you manage to save the ship and the remaining crew. You are granted a field promotion to Lieutenant and given the command of the ship you just saved."

Every time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 195
09-19-2009, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Numerous: Will PvP award experience?

Yes! You can rank up entirely just by participating in PvP.
I really like this decision but I fear some users will misuse this possibility. How? Two friends one reduces his shields as far as possible and then just stands still and waits until the other one killed him. After some time they reverse their roles. Fast and easy way to gain XP. Sure their is no fun in it but there will be enough who will do this just to get to Admiral fast.

I hope the death penalty is high enough to prevent such things.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 196
09-19-2009, 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampir888 View Post
I hope the death penalty is high enough to prevent such things.
Quote 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekhan
We're still working out the specifics of the death penalty, but you won't lose your bridge officers or your ship upon death. It's not in line with the experience we're trying to create.
Quote 2
Quote:
<oleum> Will you be able to lose bridge crew by having them killed in battle?

<CrypticZinc> No. It is a game - your Bridge Officers will always get "saved" right at the last minute. (Beamed to sick bay, etc...) Just like in the shows. : ) If your BOfficers are a very important part of your "character" - you'll invest a huge amount of time developing these guys - we don't want to be killing them on you. : ) 3 months or work gone in a minute - yeah, not fun for most.
If you can't loose your ship, or your bridge crew, I guess the only thing left would be an XP hit (ok i guess that its not going to be refered to as XP more skill advancement but call it what you will).

If there isn't the risk of loosing XP / skill advancment or even loosing skills themselves and the dealth penalty is just for the next hour your going to have to fly around without any shields , or only have 10% health on a planet then I share your concern's.

I guess they could just reduce the XP you gain from killing the same person again and again, it would then make it pointless for people to try to level up that way.

Ahh just found the other thing i read about death penalty's

Quote 3

Quote:
9. How will player deaths be handled in the game?

We’re not ready to provide exact details, but the defeat penalty won’t be harsh. I think we’re past the days of outrageous death penalties in MMOs. People want to play and have fun.
So I guess the death penalty won't be anything too big.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 197
09-19-2009, 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampir888 View Post
I really like this decision but I fear some users will misuse this possibility. How? Two friends one reduces his shields as far as possible and then just stands still and waits until the other one killed him. After some time they reverse their roles. Fast and easy way to gain XP. Sure their is no fun in it but there will be enough who will do this just to get to Admiral fast.

I hope the death penalty is high enough to prevent such things.
That's a good point about the misuse of it imo. Reminds me of the bounty system in Eve in a way. Sure, you can put a huge bounty on someone in Eve, but it's pointless. All you have to do is get into a clone without implants (and you might not even want to do that) and let a buddy 'pop' your pod. You split the money, unless, true to Eve fashion, your 'buddy' keeps it all. Not the best analogy, I know, but a similar system that is abused to pointlessness.

I don't see *too* much of a problem with it being abused, though. Sure, it could upset the balance between pure pvp players if/when people do this. I think it would be a sad way to progress, but that's just my point of view. Also, as someone who will pvp occasionally, if I get beat, meh. My delicate e-peen can take it.

I also hope the death penalty will be enough to discourage something like you've suggested.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 198
09-19-2009, 04:50 PM
I would have thought that a Lt Cmdr would be the lowest rank to command a vessel?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 199
09-20-2009, 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazraith
In defense of my original post I did mention that Kira was Bajoran, but my point was that there is evidence of an Army based ranking system in Star Trek cannon. Having said that, what I was really trying to relay was that, as stated in the Cryptic post that once you hit Admiral you still are only half way in terms of skills, there needs to be more ranks. So, at the least they should add Rear Admiral and Vice Admiral before the rank of Admiral and then add Fleet Admiral as the highest rank attainable. This would prevent the eventuality of having to say over system wide comms “20,000SP Engineer – Admiral w/ Nebula Class Explorer - LFF!” I also happen to think that they need to add Ensign and Lieutenant Junior Grade, but that is just me.

I know they may be having a hard time working into the story how an ensign would get command of a ship, but I have a suggestion. Just have everyone start out as an ensign on the fringes of Star Fleet space as the bridge helm officer and have some catastrophic event happen that kills everyone on the bridge except you, which forces you to take charge in order to save the ship. The first couple of missions could have you fighting off a smaller foe and then scanning nearby nebulas for evidence. Once the evidence is captured you try to transmit it to Star Fleet only to find out that your communications systems are down. Here is where things could get interesting. If you are an engineer you would be able to repair the communications which leads you to Star Fleet appointing you as captain with a promotion to Lieutenant Junior Grade and sending you back out for more information. If you are a tactical officer your scans could turn up a nearby base that you could use to send the information, but it is under siege and needs rescuing. After which, you would be promoted and given further missions.

After these first sets of missions you would learn all the aspects of the game. Once completed you attain the rank of Lieutenant and are ordered back to Star Base One to pick out your first new shiny ship and then boldly go where ever you want…

Naz

Im new here but I would say that the reason you start out at Lt instead of Ensign or LtJg is that your BOs will have these ranks and you need to out rank them.

just my guess.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 200
09-20-2009, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha63
Im new here but I would say that the reason you start out at Lt instead of Ensign or LtJg is that your BOs will have these ranks and you need to out rank them.

just my guess.
This is also true, but it would still work well if as an Ensign you only get "captain" Runabouts type vessel, where there's only room for 1 or 2 officers.

Early game could have players start on an Npc starship or Station, your captain could send you on away missions using the runabout. When you are eventually promoted to Lieutenant, you could then be given command of a ship and introduced to the concept of Bridge Officers.

It's StarTrek after all, why are we trying so hard to copy how it works in other sci-fi Mmos? I can appreciate that the method has been tried and tested, so its less of a risk, but to what extend does the experience have to be compromised?

Just my opinion.
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