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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,155
# 11
01-29-2013, 03:34 AM
i think it's mainly about enjoying the game with others and a mix of piloting/ship-setup skill, spec-"skill", "boff-choosing-skill" and (of course) teamskill. no matter if win or loose. at least the ablity to adapt and to be open for criticism.

on the other hand a bad player to me is, who's using uncounterable abilities or intentionally tries to ruin others game-experience, and at least even seem to enjoy lame-style (some of them seem to be very skilled in acting such).

dont' get me wrong: sometimes i try it myself when i'm bored of being sn'd, viraled and sucked dry all the way by a whole team or even only one of my beloved "bad-players", but i'm not really good at.
i grab my transphasic bomber, which mostly only helps my logged dps (and not happens often)...
but i never would pack a ship full of op's like some already mentioned (only if you call a vesta with 2 tb's and advanced danubes op ^^)...
btw: i do use some of the consonles which come with ships. but indeed on most of my ships there's only the team fortress one (or the dedicated, if there's one. f.e. mvae...).

try to focus on own abilities/things that effect you or your teammates positively, not focussing on abilities that effect your enemies negatively (at least let there be any working counter). i think this i would call some kind of honor and pvp skill (even if only in a social way ^^).
(i've to state that to me passives like f.e. disruptor-procs don't count in this. somewhere the line had to be drawn i guess ).

the best games to me are rounds when team and 1v1 battles mix and when the outcome of the game stays unclear till the last kill (and sometimes we, the randoms, beat that premade) ...

have good fights

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc/Rom: Lag Industries - D'Waste/Fed-Sci: Lag Industries - IAM
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PvP improvements, coming since 2010 lol

Last edited by wast33; 01-29-2013 at 03:41 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
# 12
01-29-2013, 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Heya folks.

Just wanted to discuss and highlight a very important issue, which I think many among us are very preoccupied with: Player skill.

But what im curios about is where this skill shines and makes it count. Is it first and foremost through teamplay or is it in glorious combat in duels? Are there more mental and intuitive qualities related or not?
Vise versa im too curios about what players dont consider skill, but an "easy" or "cheap" strategy.

Lastly i want to bring up the topic with good and sore losers, as well as cocky winners. Sure loosing sucks, but thats something you learn and grow from, and most people i know take a loss with a smile and moves on. But what to do with people who are sore losers, e.g the ones who will promise that you alone will be hunted down until vengenance is soothed? And lastly how would you deal with a cocky winner who will rub it in so it shines?

In my opinion player skill shines through teamplay. Through teamplay you dont just evolve yourself, but you help others grow too. The team creates a synergy among themselves, a force unstoppable. Its too via teamplay you develope communication skills and a keen mind of observation to be able to predict, anticipate your ship and abilties, your friends ships, and how to read your opponents gameplay.
Solo combat has it merits as well. Youre on your own, and you alone have to predict and defeat your enemy. This requires alot of intuition and to be able to know when to buff, when to strike, and when to move off.

Whats not skill? Stick on every annoying console and let that win for you. On top of that, picking FOTM ship(s) and win with it due to its superiority.

Well discuss

From my POV PvP in every game is similar to chess so skill would be knowing how to manipulate your opponent or opponents depending on is it a team fight or 1v1 to bring them to a position where you have the upper hand.

I'd have to agree with everyone that the opposite of skill is knowing that something is overpowered and using it since that from my POV lets you skip more than one step in the manipulation i mentioned above...

When it comes to sore winners it's simple, don't oppose them, someone beats you and wants to rub it in don't let them, simply admit it, show them that you don't care, that usually puts them out of place as that's the last thing they expect lol

Sore losers, let them come, each attempt they make to take you down makes them better and each time it provides more and more of a challenge for you to defeat them making it more fun in the process.

Good losers are the ones that will bother to ask how/why they lost and in the end of the day try to improve so they can ask for a rematch, you know the kind of people you defeat and they end up on your friendslist XD
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 13
01-29-2013, 04:49 AM
Very well said.


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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,104
# 14
01-29-2013, 05:07 AM
skill is knowing your role in the battle, and being in position to max your contributions to the team. skill in dogfights sometimes comes down to turn rate, and a little bit of gear.

at this point in the game, skill still trumps gear. timing is still the key. understanding the cool downs of the powers you, and your teammates, as well as your enemy are running will create windows of opportunity for spike damage, and defensive postures.

i have seen this change greatly with the additions to the game over the past year, and i cannot deny that gear impacts the outcome a lot in some PUG matches, but i have also seen 2 great players take the lead and keep 3 average players alive through a ton of crazy console mess, and pull out a victory.

good sportsmanship, and an open mind are always key to good gaming, as well as most relationships you have with anything, and anyone in life.

have fun kill bad guys

-thrusters on full-
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 15
01-29-2013, 06:31 AM
When I think about the guys I look up to as far as skill they are usually strong in one of two areas (or both): piloting and target calling.

Both of these involve buff watching, situational awareness, and resource allocation. So much of what I see actually get kills involves keeping track of abilities, it makes me feel like gear has less to do with winning. There's a barrier that sub-par builds won't overcome without fixing their problems, and there are outliers like tric mines, but I still think there's a large space where builds and gear are comparable enough.

Players like me know to wait until my target's tac team wears off before I shoot them. Really good players will bait their opponent into using tac team prematurely. Great players will see somebody use tac team, start a counter in their head, go shoot somebody else, then switch back when they know their first target is vulnerable. That involves watching the buffs, tracking the physical location of multiple targets over time, and keeping enough offense on hand to throw at the target of choice. When you get a target caller with the skills to track the cooldowns of multiple opponents it's a thing of beauty.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 16
01-29-2013, 10:25 PM
*joins hands* So let's give Peace a CHANCE...
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 341
# 17
01-30-2013, 02:43 AM
In STO after my opinion the prerequisites for having a nice PVP experience are in order of importance :
1.)Weapons.
I started winning matches after I put MKXII purple weapons each costing around 6-10 mil on exchange.
2.)Ship.
If you don't have a good turn rate ,a good shield mod and some hull you have a handicap toward other players using better ships.A jhas versus another escort ,both with same weapons ,same skill pilot's who will win in the end ?
3.)Doffs
You must have and slot good doffs otherwise things won't go very good in PVP.Same ship ,same weapon one with doffs slotted one without doffs slotted it is easy to know wich will win if the pilots are equal in skill.
Skill in my opinion comes only after all those from above and it is proved in field when somebody having lower grade weapon's,lower grade ship manages to win against a similar or better configuration ship .Wining against a weaker adversary is not skill it is just applied mathematics.
* I am speaking from one ship to another ship encounters not about team fighting against another team .
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 18
01-30-2013, 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dova25 View Post
In STO after my opinion the prerequisites for having a nice PVP experience are in order of importance :
1.)Weapons.
I started winning matches after I put MKXII purple weapons each costing around 6-10 mil on exchange.
Some of the better players have been owning with lesser weapons, even blue weapons. So that's not all of it at all.

And it's a team game, not an individual game. If you won a match it was because of the play of everyone, not just one player.


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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,102
# 19
01-30-2013, 06:40 AM
The most important skill is knowing how to setup your ship. What abilities to bring, weapons, etc.

The second is knowing how to setup your UI.

Then you get the actually in-game skill.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 20
01-31-2013, 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
thats the problem though, everyone in this game already seems to have a hostile attitude to anyone that trys to help.

also, a lot of people tend to sound arrogant without meaning too because its hard to "hear" the words when someone just told you why they beat you....thats an internet thing though.


Ive had this problem,,,i welcome advice to something i may be doing wrong, but have noticed when i try to give it i get shunned. I smashed some guy in 1vs1 couple months ago and got him on a team chat after the match and was asking what he was running and telling him what i exploited and what not then he just cut me off, left team chat and warped out and i never heard from him again,,,its as if it made him mad that maybe i knew more and was offering help.
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