Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 81
01-30-2013, 09:29 AM
I just remember a thread where the defense duration bonus of APO came up. If it's not 5 seconds, but the full duration as it was reported that should be investigated and fixed.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,562
# 82
01-30-2013, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
I just remember a thread where the defense duration bonus of APO came up. If it's not 5 seconds, but the full duration as it was reported that should be investigated and fixed.
It's lasting the full 15 seconds the last time I checked - was last week or so, I think - it comes up in the Defense as well as the Engine discussions all the time.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 83
01-30-2013, 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
It's lasting the full 15 seconds the last time I checked - was last week or so, I think - it comes up in the Defense as well as the Engine discussions all the time.
Yeah, than fix that 1st. I'd also address the Boff ability reduction doffs. If APO needs to be looked at again after doing those 2 things that's ok. But, I think most of the complaints would go away at that point.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,283
# 84
01-30-2013, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I suppose I was just thinking of those folks more likely to slot EWP3 or Extend3 than a DEM3 - so they might be running DEM2 and just not getting the boost that the person who went DEM3 did.
I don't even slot DEM2, I have AtS2 (Fleet Excel) so I use DEM1 purely for the 8 seconds of NI which with EPS power transfer and EPtW1 gives FAW2 at 125+ weapon power running 6 BAs but even with AP:B2 that still only 1k per hit where my tac/scort can sustain around 2k per hit (AP:O with 30 seconds of downtime per cycle and CRF) and even with NI in place my cruiser doesn't get higher than 1500 per hit
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 85
01-30-2013, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Most Boff abilities don't have a downside other than opportunity cost.

Extend Shields has a very high benefit w/or w/o doffs.

VM (sans human boff fix recently) has a very high benefit w/doffs.

Again, APO has been this way for a long time. The only recent change has been the ways to reduce it's cooldown, so 1 copy can be at maxed uptime. This means people can chain APO3 w/tech doffs or AP doffs.
AUx2bat drains all your aux. Downside.

ES can be disabled by shockwaving. I cant exactly shockwave an escort out of an APO. Hell he is freaking IMMUNE to it!

APO has been used to such a long extent and overlooked due to past mechanics, which has over time made APO a superior power. Its about a time for a change in that department.
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 486
# 86
01-30-2013, 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Next up is the APO immunity to movement debuffs.
I disagree, movement debuff immunity is the major benefit. I'd much rather have the other buffs nerfed than lose the signature effect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Lastly i still want defense removed from its correlation to speed.
Also disagree here. Escorts should have to move, not just park and shoot. That's why things that resist movement debuffs exist, to keep you from getting caught without defense. It may make you feel helpless when your movement protection abilities are on cooldown, but it's not reason to scrap the system altogether.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 87
01-30-2013, 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
AUx2bat drains all your aux. Downside.

ES can be disabled by shockwaving. I cant exactly shockwave an escort out of an APO. Hell he is freaking IMMUNE to it!

APO has been used to such a long extent and overlooked due to past mechanics, which has over time made APO a superior power. Its about a time for a change in that department.
Fyi, EPTA not only restores aux power, but it unlocks the cap. It no longer shares a cooldown w/Aux2batt. This means a player can pop epta after aux2batt and be at full aux either by popping an aux batt or setting the power to a max aux preset.

Also, I was using aux2batt in the context of reducing APO's cooldown to the point where APO3 slotted becomes 2xAPO3. Not to answer you question regarding high end powers. VM was the Sci example I'd sited. Getting back to the APO cooldown, there was a time players used 2xAPO1 to counter pet TB spam, now it's pseudo 2xAPO3 CRF2 and w/e else in the freed up Lt Commander slot.

Aux2Damp grants immunity to stuns and has a fairly short cooldown, this can be timed w/ES applications if needed.

Also, I later remembered the bug where the APO defense boost is lasting longer than 5 seconds, I agree this needs to be fixed.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,737
# 88
01-30-2013, 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Most Boff abilities don't have a downside other than opportunity cost.
Extend Shields has a very high benefit w/or w/o doffs.

VM (sans human boff fix recently) has a very high benefit w/doffs.

Again, APO has been this way for a long time. The only recent change has been the ways to reduce it's cooldown, so 1 copy can be at maxed uptime. This means people can chain APO3 w/tech doffs or AP doffs.
And that means what? Exactly? In reference to the post that you're trying to respond to? I guess Abandon Ship has a downside, but aside from that? Somehow please apply that in some manner that makes sense. It seems like your trying to disagree with the previous poster. I'm not sure why you would be, but it seems like that way. When someone uses the term "opportunity cost" really you have to wonder what it is they wish to point out that might not be blatantly obvious to everyone but themselves.

Here. Let me help out. If you use a CC you might give up a Heal. That's Opp cost. If you use a power that shares a CD with other powers, putting them on that CD, that's an Opp cost as well. For instance if you just used TT you're now open to VM as ET is on CD. Basically if carrying or activating a power precludes the use of different and valuable abilites for some measurable time that's an Opp cost.

Omega does everything you can reasonably ask a tactical power to do, PLUS it boosts defense. There's ZERO opp cost. There is nothing you could be using that would even do HALF of what it does.

The entire GAME is based around Opp costs. Except Omega. It doesn't have one. It doesn't MATTER how long its been like that. It doesn't MATTER if other abilities in the game have a great benefit. It doesn't MATTER if doffs exists. It doesn't change anything about the fact that fundamentally Omega has zero Opp cost.

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Last edited by thissler; 01-30-2013 at 10:06 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,495
# 89
01-30-2013, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
And that means what? Exactly? In reference to the post that you're trying to respond to? Somehow please apply that in some manner that makes sense. It seems like your trying to disagree with the previous poster. I'm not sure why you would be, but it seems like that way. When someone uses the term "opportunity cost" really you have to wonder what it is they wish to point out that might not be blatantly obvious to everyone but themselves.

Here. Let me help out. If you use a CC you might give up a Heal. That's Opp cost. If you use a power that shares a CD with other powers, putting them on that CD, that's an Opp cost as well. For instance if you just used TT you're now open to VM as ET is on CD. Basically if carrying or activating a power precludes the use of different and valuable abilites for some measurable time that's an Opp cost.

Omega does everything you can reasonably ask a tactical power to do, PLUS it boosts defense. There's ZERO opp cost. There is nothing you could be using that would even do HALF of what it does.

The entire GAME is based around Opp costs. Except Omega. It doesn't have one. It doesn't MATTER how long its been like that. It doesn't MATTER if other abilities in the game have a great benefit. It doesn't MATTER if doffs exists. It doesn't change anything about the fact that fundamentally Omega has zero Opp cost.
The post I was replying to mentioned APO doesn't have any downside, while other Boff abilities do. I was stating that most Boff abilities don't have a downside other than opportunity cost of slotting that Boff. From there I went on to explain how the costs of slotting APO have been reduced by cooldown reduction doffs.

I later gave an example of how in the past 2 copies of APO were required b/c of the TB spam from pets. Most people ran 2xAPO1 (some ran APO1 and PH). This meant not BO3 nor HY3. Before that most escorts only ran 1 copy of APO1. Now a player can have full uptime on APO3, CRF2, and BO3 or HY3. Again, this all come from cooldown reduction doffs, not APO itself. If APO was the end all be all, than why weren't people running 3 copies of it?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 90
01-30-2013, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
making more escorts bug like is an alarmingly bad idea imo.
It's also the only one that is likely to ever happen.


I understand the issue. I understand why people want it, and other ships, nerfed.


I think people are not being realistic in their thinking when they look at an item like the bugship that some players have literally spent (and clearly been encouraged to spend) hundreds of dollars on (and now encouraged to link to multiple lockbox ships (3!!)).

If you really think Crytpic is going to nerf a ship like this, you're just not being honest with the realities of the situation.


Naz put forward an idea that is plausible in the face of lockbox ships, and all they represent investment wise for the player and revenue wise for Cryptic.

We can hate it all we like, but the very likely fact is that the development on things we have seen have been, in my eyes, enabled in a huge way by the very very massive sale of lockbox keys and super doffpack promos.


Cryptic then went on to hedge their bets, and added the Lobi store and large scale dilithium & EC sinks (EC which is effectively buyable through selling keys and fleet modules, etc).


DDIS, I'm not trying to wizz on your parade - your sentiment is easily felt and expressed very widely across the playerbase - but I just think it's ever going to happen and if it did would in fact cost Cryptic money.


It's one thing to spend a ton of cash gambling, it's quite another toi see the top prize go from a BMW M3 to a Kia Sorento.



Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
think you need to pvp a whole lot more. most times in premades i dont even use my own tt.

I have to agree here, my experience is limited compared to most of the players here but I've been getting a crash course in premade teaming and in an organized team:

  • ST, ET and TT all have their place
  • A good portion of the time you are not even using them on yourself, you are using them on your teammates who have specialized in the other teams that you lack.




This is wildly different from when I was just doing random C&H and Pug Que where most of the time I was pretty much on my own, unless I was lucky enough to have some hardened vet on my team pulling triple weight to make up for the Pugs.




Quote:
Originally Posted by denizenvi View Post
I disagree, movement debuff immunity is the major benefit. I'd much rather have the other buffs nerfed than lose the signature effect.
I agree, and like any buff it can be removed with SNB.

So it's a matter of timing, SNB to remove something like APO and then hit the target with TBs.





I'd say this thread has a lot of great information, but its like trying to listen to 6 different radio stations all at the same time, on full volume.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 01-30-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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