Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,037
# 171
01-31-2013, 03:13 AM
I believe that the cryo gun is one of the major problems of ground PVP. Is a weapon that no armour has resistance and in the hands of a tactical captain can one shot anyone, no matter how mach defence/heals you stack.

If this can be fix, I am sure that it will be a major step for a more compelling ground PVP.

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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,582
# 172
01-31-2013, 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerritourug View Post
I believe that the cryo gun is one of the major problems of ground PVP. Is a weapon that no armour has resistance and in the hands of a tactical captain can one shot anyone, no matter how mach defence/heals you stack.

If this can be fix, I am sure that it will be a major step for a more compelling ground PVP.
The problem is the weapon is very much utterly useless otherwise since its was meant to fight Tholians, compare it with a polaron pulsewave.

The issue is not the cryo pulsewave, the issue is armor lacking defenses against cold damage.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,037
# 173
01-31-2013, 04:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
The problem is the weapon is very much utterly useless otherwise since its was meant to fight Tholians, compare it with a polaron pulsewave.

The issue is not the cryo pulsewave, the issue is armor lacking defenses against cold damage.
Yes, you are correct, I agree with that.

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Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 174
01-31-2013, 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy View Post
Ground is what they're designed around. Why shouldn't they shine on the ground? They do not shine as easily in space.

I will not argue I like it, but to say it that doesn't compare side by side to Aggressive, Telepathic, Seduce, Rapture, Borg Neural Blast, Nerve Pinch, or Rapture?

Not to be rude, but it sounds to me your issue is with burst damage or game balance in general. Not with caitians or ferasans.
The point is, they shoud be balanced with other races for ground. Making them hands down better than all other races on the ground makes the entire ground PvP game unbalanced, as was stated. The idea is to allow other races to compete on ground without forcing everyone to roll a cat.

Pounce is the most powerful active trait there is, if you think it is weak, have a friend buff it with a full set of Tactical buffs and watch it do over 2,000 damage to a shielded, armored target. That is OP especially when the player still has Lunge immediately available to do it again. Then after Lunging for another 2,000 damage 1-shot kill, the player still has a fully buffed up shotgun blast to 1-shot a third player in 2 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy View Post
And, this is different from using any other active trait because?
No other active trait is even half as powerful or available as often or buffed by Tacs; although Rapture is a distant second.


Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy View Post
Also, if your using pounce or lunge as a first option to counter holds, or weapon malfunction? I suggest you read the description on energy cells, or any direct healing ability I can think of.
Since all Power Cells and Hypos share a cooldown, using a power cell prevents use of a hypo for a global cooldown and can mean certain death. (Unlike Catians, other races have to live with these shared cooldowns all the time.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy View Post
For a third time, not to be rude, but I have to ask you a question, guriphu: Do you actually play a caitian or ferasan?

It could be one second cooldown, and still wouldn't be worth using more then once for the knock back or the odd exploit.

It puts you in a odd position. More, In the time to close the gap and complete the animation you would have done more damage with any other attack in the game. Reduce the damage, increase the cool down, or really do anything but buff it and it goes from a at unique times useful or a fun party trick to nothing more then a toy.
Go to Otha, you will see. In fact ask any feline to demonstrate the power of Pounce. After you respawn, return here and post the results.

Last edited by buccaneerdtb; 01-31-2013 at 06:46 AM.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 175
01-31-2013, 06:54 AM
There are several ways to get COLD resistance to combat the Cryo gun, they do not prevent it from being OP, but they will allow you to survive, sometimes.
Tacs can use Overwatch, Draw Fire, Rally Cry all give resistance to all damage including cold.
Engineers have Engineering Proficiency, Equipment Diagnostics, Repulsor Bubble, Medical Generaters, all shield resistance buffs.
Science has All Medic heals, Biofilter Sweep.

Dodge works the same vs cold as all other damage in game.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,582
# 176
01-31-2013, 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneerdtb View Post
The point is, they shoud be balanced with other races for ground.
Really? It does not sound you understand what the Felines pay for in exchange and lets see, what does Honorable does, +5 All Damage resistance and what does Warrior does +15%, Physical Damage, +5% All Energy Damage, +15%% Critical Severity.

Now Humans MUST take Leadership that is a Space Trait and Teamwork that Increases team exploit damage ... compared with Klingons they are certainly being made less capable on ground.

The Felines are strong in the ground to a degree but its because they have no choice, also you wanna play?

Acute Senses, +10 Perception and +10% Exploit Damage vs Feline Instincts +10 Perception, +10% Exploit Damage, 10% chance to Dodge half damage of range attacks and +75% Jump Height BUT Acute Senses is a ALIEN trait, meaning they can pick oh ... Soldier, +5% All Energy Damage and +10% Critical Severity that Felines CANNOT and they can pick Aggressive +5% All Damage and +5% Threat Generation that CANNOT.

Putting list to list we see one thing, Felines are good at ground because that is what their trait list ALLOWS then to be good at, I cannot pick Warp Theorist or Astrophysicist with them but I certainly can with a Alien.

You want to make things "balanced" in the ground at the expense of felines that are cannot really DO anything outside ground and of course we have the Klingons that are also good at ground combat.

Guess what? races arent "balanced" ... some are better at some field that another, except the Alien that every one rolls because of Efficient Captain or you want me to go down to the wonders that is Space Traits?
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 544
# 177
01-31-2013, 07:31 AM
No, we want all the traits rebalanced and several of the space traits made more universal. The races should be somewhat unique but not any OP. The traits were made a long time ago and much of this game has changed since then. Most traits are useless and a few are 'must haves'.

As far as the 5% damage bonus of soldier, that is 5% of the base damage, not full damage, so it amounts to 2 more damage per shot....just WOW. Awesome. That is not even noticable. I have made an Alien with Soldier, Agressive, Peak Health, Lucky and did not do much more damage at all. Certainly not the 10% it looks like on paper.

Just to be clear, you make some very good arguements about traits. It sounds like you join the rest of us in wanting traits redesigned, rebalanced, redistributed, re...something that makes more sense and balance. I always pick 2 space and 2 ground traits. I think we should get 2 seperate trait lists to pick from, much like skill points.

Last edited by buccaneerdtb; 01-31-2013 at 07:36 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 588
# 178
01-31-2013, 07:48 AM
I have no problems with a cat species being better at ground PvP, since after all, they are cats. It makes sense, though it really isn't a complete, utter blowout. You can still be good at ground PvP with an Alien, for instance. Doesn't hurt that I have both a Caitian and several Ferasans, though.

For just one kill, Tactical is really overpowered. There is hardly anything, if anything at all, that you can do about a fully buffed Tactical one-shotting or two-shotting you, and I don't think that's a good thing. I also do agree with the shared CD of Pounce and Lunge.

As for species balance, like I said, I think it's fine. Caitians and Ferasans are stronger in very realistic areas, but they certainly are not invincible. On a map like Shanty Town the advantage is probably too big. I think being able to fight on rooftops is great, but for only cats to be able to do it isn't fair in my opinion. There should be some lower areas to get on the roofs.

If ground PvP stays just like it is, I'd still like it. But there should be some relavitely simple changes that would make it better. Redoing the ground traits is something I also would agree with.

So there are my impulsive thoughts.
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I am retired from STO. By the way, hindsight is 20/20.
Ferasan Shadow Force | Borg Extermination Squad

Last edited by sirepical; 01-31-2013 at 07:50 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 179
01-31-2013, 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
A Tier I power can negate a Tier I power, and Reduce in effectiveness other powers it defends against by 35%
A Tier II Power can negate a Tier II or lesser power and reduce in effectiveness any higher tier power by 70%
A Tier III Power can negate any power of tier III or lesser.

This would give a reason to use powers like Polarized Hull III, Tactical Team III, More reasons for Science team III and Engineering Team III.
Hi Web,

I think there could be merit in that kind of system, and perhaps multiple uses of a lower tier power could be combined to clear a higher tier debuff completely.

To be honest, I think there are already some reasons to take things like ET 3 and ST 3, especially with the CD reduction doffs.

If you're just solo/PUG queuing, maybe not - but in an organized team situation I think those powers do have their place depending on team comp.

I think my other concern is that the barrier to entry for the average casual player to PvP is already quite high, a system like this is an added layer of complexity that only the hardcore really get any enjoyment out of.

That's just my personal opinion though.



Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Also the thoughts are to change things so that it becomes more important to have ships with those slots available in a PVP situation to be able to defend against those other powers in a more worth while fashion. It would also make it so that Escorts suddenly will want those ships along with them, instead of being the "I can do it all" ships they have become lately. Including vs. PVE.
I'm saying this in honesty, and it's not my intent to insult you at all - so please don't take it that way.

The idea that an Escort is an "I can do it all" ship in PvP is...well, it feels like we're not playing the same game.


Here's how it goes in a typical match for me in an organized game with my fleetmates vs. Whoever (not other fleetmates, not that it would matter probably).

HE is usually held in reserve, a good portion of my hull heals are covered by Team healers (non-escorts).

TSS is my most frequent used heal outside of EPTS, it's generally available enough that I can toss it on someone else as a great portion of my shield survivability is covered by Team healers (non-escorts).

TT 1 is held in reserve until I, or someone else, is being focused. It's not strictly a heal, but I've included it anyway.

RSP 1 held in reserve until truly needed.


What happens when I'm VMd?
> Healers clear it with ET for me.

What happens when I'm SNBd?
> Healers clear it with ST for me.

What happens when I'm being focused?
> Healers give me ES/TSS to keep me alive (especially after SNBd).


On top of this, some of those same healers are also:


VM'ing targets as part of a kill set up.

PSWing tagets to knock out extends, etc. Usually as part of a kill set up.



So for me, when someone says the Escort is the do it all ship, its completely alien to what I've experienced so far.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 01-31-2013 at 07:54 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 180
01-31-2013, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
The problem is the weapon is very much utterly useless otherwise since its was meant to fight Tholians, compare it with a polaron pulsewave.

The issue is not the cryo pulsewave, the issue is armor lacking defenses against cold damage.
lol????? no the cryo pulsewave is very op. i care less that its designed verse tholians. the sheild is ok and the armor is meh. with out going into ground mechanics since i am a space guy, my little knowledge on ground that i have been tought is as follows, full omega gear with the puleswave. its boosting crit. then the proc on the gun is a freeze. let alone the 1 shot, if you dont get that in no worries, hes slow to move with that proc as well as supprisive fire. yeah hes dead. not only that but my fleet mate is a sci and can 1 shot a whole team. shes done it before. its not like they were bad players or anything. she had the right pos to get it into the team since they bunched up.

im a huge ground noob and i have 1 shotted a guy who is 1 of the best players on ground. im sure you know izzled. sure 1 in a mill chance on it to happen. but that was all due to the gun. not any skill whats so ever.
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