Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,986
# 61
01-30-2013, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by distantworlds View Post
Please take a second look at the Birds of Prey. They're HUGE. And unlike the fed ships, there is far less canon to worry about. Outside of the B'rel, I don't think I've seen any of them in a 'canon' source before. They're supposed to be small, but my Hegh'ta with its 100 crew is only a bit smaller than the Vorcha with 15 times the crew. Birds of Prey are SUPPOSED to be small, fast, stealthy.

I fully understand not wanting to change the Defiant. All the "primary" ships of a series will have significant emotional levels attached to them. But I think most people would be much happier if the BoP's were on the scale of the B'rel, rather than the Vorcha.

I think the BoPs suffer from a "Higher Tiers == Bigger Ships" issue. It's supposed to be that way Fed side, since the ships (outside of the Defiant) all both have more crew and more expected luxury. Back in Kirk's time, Fed crews didn't have spacious suites for quarters. So when you increase the crew and increase the amount of space needed per crew member, they get bigger in a hurry. But KDF doesn't go in for that. There's no reason for the ships to increase in size like the fed ships do.

One last parting thing: I have to congratulate you guys on the BoP designs. I really like the addition of external engines on the shoulders, especially. I fly my Hegh'ta with the Haj's upper and lower nacelles (but otherwise Hegh'ta), so it has nicely sized warp engines and the cannons hang from the wings like the classic B'rel. It's a great combination of that classic feel, but with more modern lines and actual warp engines. (It always annoyed me that too many of the non-fed ships even in Canon sources didn't have visible warp engines)
Exactly.

And Btw, my Hegh'ta is customised in very much the same way, nacelles and cannons of the Haj. (Was the first ship that I mismatched parts on, it just looked better that way.)
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 949
# 62
01-30-2013, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by distantworlds View Post
Something just occurred to me: Did the Galaxy-class Enterprise ever go into Spacedock? I don't recall ever seeing spacedock in the next generation. I remember it was in scaffolding, but not the spacedock that we saw in the Kirk movies.
Here's a youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9ea07hOmsE

It's not Earth Space Dock but Starbase 74.
Member since November 2009... I think.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 101
# 63
01-30-2013, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by altechachan View Post
Here's a youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9ea07hOmsE

It's not Earth Space Dock but Starbase 74.
So it's the spacedock model, but not actually spacedock over earth, so Starbase 74 is bigger than earth spacedock, and everything just works out.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 255
# 64
01-30-2013, 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
Honestly, based on the .jpg and the clip - given the perspective (and you even have Bug ships flying through the video shot) -- there's no real hard evidence on screen that the Jem Dreadnought is. Just because you liked what you read from some non-canon (unless they displayed the specs in the shows) stat sheet - it doesn't make it correct.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar...battleship.htm



Personally, I feel the size is "correct" more or less. The problem with scale is that escorts are too damn big in STO. I base this off the fact that the JHAS hangars match the size of my JHAS, and they look huge next to the dreadnaught as do other escorts. It must be due to some issues with the engine or whatever and they need to be bigger. I don't know.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar...nion-ships.gif

This gif shows the true size of a JHAS next to a dreadnaught as best as we can tell. They are considerably larger in STO.

Also, look at what taco said about ESD. Then, if you have a dreadnaught, plant it next to ESD to get a feel for how huge it is. This is why I feel the scale of the dread is right on target, but escorts are not. They are far bigger than they should be for some reason, and ultimately why players feel cruisers and up are out of scale whack when they're really not, it's the escorts that should really be the size of all those hangar fighters in the game.

I'm sure the escorts "are in scale with each other" but they aren't with bigger ships.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 917
# 65
01-30-2013, 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
The outside is not really relevant, as I mentioned it was made for ST:3 and doors were just big enough for the Enterprise.

Then TNG come and they used it again, just used a smaller model of the Enterprise-D so it could fit the doors.
Actually, the scene where the Ent D enters spacedock is the exact scene from ST3 with an image of the Ent D model scaled to cover the original Ent on screen.

In other words, they didn't film a new scene for TNG, they edited the ST3 scene.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,679
# 66
01-30-2013, 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reximuz View Post
Actually, the scene where the Ent D enters spacedock is the exact scene from ST3 with an image of the Ent D model scaled to cover the original Ent on screen.

In other words, they didn't film a new scene for TNG, they edited the ST3 scene.
Yep. And the windows on the starbase are the same size, so the starbase is the same size, and the Enterprise is just smaller for that scene for dramatic reasons. Which are no more compelling than gaming reasons. That is to say, gaming reasons are equally compelling, in a game.

The game will never have every ship the exact right size compared to each other, on purpose, and for very good reasons.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 17
# 67
01-30-2013, 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kekvin View Post
The episode in TNG season 1 with the Byrans in had Ent-D in ESD. The bryans steal the 1701D due to the ship having the largest computer core so they can download there planets Main Computer into it.
It was the Bynars, and that was Starbase 74 in orbit of Tarsas III, not ESD.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 924
# 68
01-30-2013, 10:47 PM
From the moment the ESD model appeared in STO, it was always my assumption this space station was scaled to that of Starbase 74. Think of it simply as ESD MK II. Starfleet simply moved the old one (as seen in ST3) out further into Sol system somewhere. That premise would go far for answering specific concerns regarding what can and can't fit through those doors.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 101
# 69
01-30-2013, 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
The game will never have every ship the exact right size compared to each other, on purpose, and for very good reasons.
Personally, I believe making it look good and give the proper feel in the game is more important than any canon. The TV show, especially, cut all sorts of corners, re-using models in completely contradictory ways. Since we're getting the Ambassador class shortly, a perfect example is that very episode. The Enterprise is accosted by a trio of ships using the B'rel Bird of Prey model, except that they're huge and referred to as K'vort Battlecruisers. Obviously, they'd expended their budget building the Enterprise-C, so grabbed the only TNG Klingon ship physical model they had at the time, which was the bird of prey from the 3rd and 4th movies.

Should that budget-constrained choice be the "canon", or wouldn't it be more appropriate to gloss over what was shown on the screen and think of the writer's intent: Big battlecruisers, not birds of prey?

The Jemmy Dreadnaught is huge in game. I haven't done a direct comparison, but it looks bigger than the Vo'quv, which, I think, makes it the biggest playable ship in the game. I think that's enough. They don't need to go overboard because one effects shot in one episode made it look the size of a space station or someone putting together some ST tech manual scribbled down an absurd number.

It needs to look right in the game. If they went much bigger, the Dreadnaught would look wrong.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 744
# 70
01-31-2013, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by psiameese View Post
From the moment the ESD model appeared in STO, it was always my assumption this space station was scaled to that of Starbase 74. Think of it simply as ESD MK II. Starfleet simply moved the old one (as seen in ST3) out further into Sol system somewhere. That premise would go far for answering specific concerns regarding what can and can't fit through those doors.
I liked the old ESD. It actually looked like it had been built as an add-on to the movie ESD.
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