Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 307
# 181
01-31-2013, 08:04 AM
My main gripe with PvP, and possibly with the system as a whole, is the general disparity between defense and offense. A cruiser with 5 eng slots can not slot them all with resistance consoles because of diminishing returns. An escort with 5 tac consoles, OTOH, can stack them all fully without any diminishing effects. In ground, a Tac can "SUPER BUFF" their damage to one-shot anyone while there is no way to "SUPER BUFF" defense or resistance even for a very short period of time. There are a few different ways to address the issue and I believe they should be discussed.

On a similar note, considering resistance diminishing returns, I think that skills that debuff resistance are way too strong. Fire on my Mark can mostly nullify resistance armors. This is more noticeable on ground where you can only equip a single armor.

I also think that all bad statuses and disables should always be resistable by applicable passive skills. Any skill that is unresistable in any way is a strong candidate to be OP. Case in point: Sub-Nucleonic Beam. It is not resistable, just counterable (Science Team).

Respawn points need to be revisited to prevent spawncamping. Respawning under fire and dying in the next second (because you're disabled for a few seconds) is becoming quite common, specially in ground. Also, respawning together with an enemy should never happen.

I'm glad Pounce and Lunge are going to share cooldowns. Pounce already does LESS damage than Lunge, so no damage reduction is needed, like it has been suggested. Additionally, Pounce does not seem to benefit from Melee Crit DOFFs (its tooltip doesn't show those effects, while Lunge's does), and I believe it should, being a Melee skill. But it might just be a tooltip issue.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,252
# 182
01-31-2013, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
lol?????
What part of "the issue is not the weapon per say but rather the lack of resistance to cold damage" did you fail to understand?

Let me put this way, you nerf the cryo and then what? we end up with the Stasis Gun situation were it was meant to do one thing at the expense of everything else and then it was prevented to do that thing, instead of going for the resistances they gone after the effect and rendered the weapon useless.

I am point at the right direction, Resistance vs Cold damage as you are pointing the finger at Cold damage.

So we remove it from the game because instead of build defenses against we rather just remove it because its easier? one less thing to keep track off?

Maybe if Ground was not just 3 sets using the same 3 weapons we would not be having this discussion.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 543
# 183
01-31-2013, 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirepical View Post
I have no problems with a cat species being better at ground PvP, since after all, they are cats. It makes sense, though it really isn't a complete, utter blowout. You can still be good at ground PvP with an Alien, for instance. Doesn't hurt that I have both a Caitian and several Ferasans, though.

Then really shouldn't Gorn be even more OP on ground? Why should ground be unbalanced at all? I agree that there should be advantages in certain areas with traits and species, however, making a species superior in all types of combat (melee, mobility, and dodge) is too much. At least take away access to covert trait for cats so they can't lunge and pounce while totally invisible.

Let's introduce a new space superior race, like the aquatic Xindi, that get 'Space Instincts' : +10% accuracy +10% elusive +10 power to all systems + 3 other traits. And give access to a unique racial trait 'system restore' that recools all BO powers by 50% with a 30 second cooldown. That would force all space PvPers to either be Xindi or go home, much like Caitians have done for ground PvP.

How about adding a new species Wolverine design. They have these steel claws and regenerate health very fast.....

Last edited by buccaneerdtb; 01-31-2013 at 08:52 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 184
01-31-2013, 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneerdtb View Post
The point is, they shoud be balanced with other races for ground ...Pounce is the most powerful active trait there is, if you think it is weak, have a friend buff it with a full set of Tactical buffs and watch it do over 2,000 damage to a shielded, armored target....
2,000 you say? This I would like to see. The most I've seen out of it ... on crit ... with flank ... with a exploit ... with a science captain buffing mellee damage was 500.

Sure your not thinking of a cyrowave ambush?

Either way that still doesn't answer three issues:

1) Why is that a problem with caitian/fersans instead of general or tactical balance?

2) Why are you comparing "every other race" to one that has no option but to pick only ground traits? Why should a race that can partially or fully specialize in space combat stand toe to toe on the ground with one that has to fully specialize in ground combat?

3) Do you actually use pounce?

Quote:
Since all Power Cells and Hypos share a cooldown, using a power cell prevents use of a hypo for a global cooldown and can mean certain death. (Unlike Catians, other races have to live with these shared cooldowns all the time.)
See, now that is a answer to a question and better stated then "See! See! All caitians are evil!"

Do you actually use pounce?

1) As for certain death? Please show me how. I have yet to use weapons malfunction and/or fuse armour for a "easy" victory. The most I've done with it so far is just confuse people the first time it's used, or encourage them to run away.

2) That's a foolish move. Being hit with a 10-30 second malfunction root, you've just moved into the one place you absolutely can't escape from, helpless, and with no other options.

3) Fix those other issues, and at most it's going to just stall someone by _maybe_ knocking them back with at most 100 damage. Your still back to being right next to some that can now easily flank you wile your still stuck in a animation, and having done less damage then just shooting back or pulling out a real mellee weapon.

Quote:
Go to Otha, you will see. In fact ask any feline to demonstrate the power of Pounce. After you respawn, return here and post the results.
I'm sorry you have bad experience with it, but I'm again just going to tell you your misdirecting your rage.

1) First, it's not that easy to use. Charing into a hornets nest is it's own drawback as well.

2) Second, Don't need to. Why is this a issue with the actually ability, and not just a convenient front end for other abilities?

I have two caitians, and a fersans. I've also been on the bad end of it before. I can tell you point blank, your issues with it are it's just the front end of other issues. Remove pounce, and those other issues will just find another fall guy.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 185
01-31-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cerritourug View Post
I believe that the cryo gun is one of the major problems of ground PVP. Is a weapon that no armour has resistance and in the hands of a tactical captain can one shot anyone, no matter how mach defence/heals you stack.

If this can be fix, I am sure that it will be a major step for a more compelling ground PVP.
You can survive a cyro pulse ambush, as someone pointed out the engineers have a number of +all resistance balance. Crouch is also +50% dodge, and the elite fleet shield helps once the first burst is over.

... That said, all of those have their own issues and in the case of the medical/shield generator? They're overrun badly as soon as they're noticed they're taken out or negated with a wave of the hand. Believe me, I've tried to make them stick.

The cyropulse thing is way out of hand with it's now common ability to do over 2K damage.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 543
# 186
01-31-2013, 08:58 AM
The thread is about "top concerns for PvP balance" so it makes since to talk about balance here. Those who do not want balance will not agree with much in this thread.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 543
# 187
01-31-2013, 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy View Post
2,000 you say? This I would like to see. The most I've seen out of it ... on crit ... with flank ... with a exploit ... with a science captain buffing mellee damage was 500.

Do you even ground PvP at all?

Strike Team +40% all damage - Targeting Optics +40% damage - Ambush +150% damage - Fire on my mark -40% resistance - Battle Strategies +25% damage

That is a Tactical Buff with the Operative kit. The Romulan Kit adds Motion Accelerater to all that.
The same Tac can be buffed by a Physician on top of all the Tac buffs.

Last edited by buccaneerdtb; 01-31-2013 at 09:21 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,301
# 188
01-31-2013, 09:00 AM
For space PVP with the underlying model starting from the hull and the interplay between all the mods that are placed on the hull and movement/acc/defense being broken I'd say fix that. It is broken at such a basic level. Everything else IN the the game is changed by this. So anything else in the game now doesn't even merit discussion. Nothing else can be balanced if the underlying model remains broken. Fairly simple. Once the underlying model is fixed everything that is built upon it can be addressed. Until that time why would you even bother entertaining any discussion about downstream issues? Unless the intent is to never address the root cause. Then sure, this thread makes a HUGE amount of sense.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 432
# 189
01-31-2013, 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buccaneerdtb View Post
Do you even ground PvP at all?
Much to my dismay, daily. I have indeed seen pounce abused the snot out of. Well, with the exception of the 2K pounce. Even crouched (Meaning I take extra melee damage), still haven't seen it top 500.

That still didn't answer any of the questions I ask you.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 543
# 190
01-31-2013, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
2) Lunge+Pounce should share a cooldown.

I absolutely agree, and this will happen. While there are additional concerns with Caitian/Ferasan racial Traits, this particular bullet point is easily addressed.

Ask him. I am not here to argue, was just supplying feedback according to the thread title.
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