Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 11
01-31-2013, 09:09 AM
If anything the BoP should have a speed bonus rather than a re-spawn bonus.

Give it a +speed bonus for 10 seconds on top of the ambush bonus when the ship decloaks.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,361
# 12
01-31-2013, 09:25 AM
Oh hey look the Raptor has every ability that the BoP does just MORE of it. Gee guess I'll prefer my BoP.

C'mon now. You can say you prefer it, but don't think to yourself that it is even equal to a Raptor for STF work. And certainly don't say it here.

And as far as playing it a bit SCI heavy, sure you can. Just if you put the TAC option in there you can actually just kill the stuff without need for SCI cc.

I'm not saying you HAVE to do it. Just saying some options are measurably better than others. Plus I mean, why wouldn't you want to put out 100% for your team with your ship choice? In a normal there's a LOT of room for shennanigans, but in Elite you may want to put away the toys for a bit.

All in all have fun and keep shooting the bad guys!!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...F31DC3F4C2396B Just some bop and raptor stfs and stuff. I have done them. Just raptor really is better than the BoP.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,145
# 13
01-31-2013, 09:42 AM
Reason why I like my BOP better then a raptor for STFs is I can put out about the same DPS as a raptor in my Hoh'sus, but with the universals I can also use a Lt Cmdr Sci or ENG ability since I usually run Cmdr and Lt Tac. This lets me do things escorts cant do like EWP1 or GW1 but still have way more dps then a sci ship or cruiser. Sci ship isn't really needed for STFs, you just need a Lt Cmdr station for 2 heals and a crowd control ability to be able to support, and BOP does that while still being good DPS to.

I rarely die in any of my BOP in STF, and I have the Heghta, B'rel, and Fleet Hoh'sus. It just has too many tricks up its sleeve for stupid borg to kill it besides getting lucky hits from the 1 shot invisitorp of doom.

B'rel is still one of the best STF ships of all as it easily dispatches tough NPC's on elite within seconds like cubes without even being shot at many times due to being able to fire torps while cloaked and not even appearing for a second when laying mines. Just use tricobalt mines with DPB3 and it can still take out cubes instantly on a crit, or a huge chunk of its health without crits, then romulan plasma torp spam can quickly finish it. A B'rel can EWP or GW all the nanite spheres as they spawn, packing them together for a nice trico mine explosion, sometimes 1 shotting all the nanites before your team even finishes the transformer on ISE.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,361
# 14
01-31-2013, 10:09 AM
Remember, we're discussing KDF here, not feds. KDF cruisers are beasts my friend. And I know you have them so that isn't news to you I'm sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwZwom0_988 KDF cruiser being beasty.

Once you start moving the BoP away from a pure Tac layout and pushing it towards anything else....those anything else ships start to look like better choices. So take away the extra Tac and you have a KDF cruiser with a GREAT turn rate and GREAT speed and like no hull. So where the KDF cruiser could just keep pounding away, potentially the BoP needs to scoot away for a bit to heal. So there's a big tradeoff that a BoP makes by doing those sorts of things that cruisers or scis are built to do.

It may not SEEM significant, but it is there. I don't really think you need to precisely measure it, I think it's enough to say "if I take myself out of the game for 30 seconds to heal up or cloak or manuever every couple of minutes" that's a pretty good chunk of damage just not being done. As opposed to a cruiser. That will just keep doing it.

Again, not saying you CAN"T do it. Just saying that gee if u need a hammer, and you have a hammer, use a hammer, and not the wrong end of a screwdriver.

That B'rel trick really is a B'rel trick and what can anyone say? Someday that will get patched into never never land.

Cheers happy flying!
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,361
# 15
01-31-2013, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
If anything the BoP should have a speed bonus rather than a re-spawn bonus.

Give it a +speed bonus for 10 seconds on top of the ambush bonus when the ship decloaks.
Okay. On top of all the ideas that make no sense that you've put forth, I like this one the best! I mean, okay. Where to start? Yes I'll TAKE the speed bonus that cloaking gives me in the first place. Then I'll put Omega on top of that whenever I have it cause well that's what you do, and THEN when I decloak I want ANOTHER speed bonus!

If you can get this idea passed, I'll see to it that someon from these forums practices making babies with you. Maybe Sophie. Would that be a good choice? Let me know I'll need to set it up!

Cheers and very very speedy flying to you!!
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,145
# 16
01-31-2013, 10:16 AM
Yeah good point about the KDF cruisers especially the Bortasqu or Fleet Torhkat, both of which I also use in STFs a lot. Great thing about them is with DHC and a torp I can do escort DPS but don't usually need heals or to evade around at all to survive, so have almost 100% uptime on target which should result in much higher damage throughout the encounter.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 622
# 17
01-31-2013, 10:42 AM
I cloak for the threat dump and damage bonus every time it's off cooldown.
All cloaks should be canon.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,669
# 18
01-31-2013, 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
Oh hey look the Raptor has every ability that the BoP does just MORE of it. Gee guess I'll prefer my BoP.

C'mon now. You can say you prefer it, but don't think to yourself that it is even equal to a Raptor for STF work. And certainly don't say it here.

And as far as playing it a bit SCI heavy, sure you can. Just if you put the TAC option in there you can actually just kill the stuff without need for SCI cc.

I'm not saying you HAVE to do it. Just saying some options are measurably better than others. Plus I mean, why wouldn't you want to put out 100% for your team with your ship choice? In a normal there's a LOT of room for shennanigans, but in Elite you may want to put away the toys for a bit.

All in all have fun and keep shooting the bad guys!!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...F31DC3F4C2396B Just some bop and raptor stfs and stuff. I have done them. Just raptor really is better than the BoP.
I've run Raptors in STF, I've run Battlecruisers in STF, and I keep going back to my BoPs (except on my Sci, who's got a Kar'fi...).

So, let us look at why:

1. any firearms instructor will tell you that it doesn't matter how big your gun is, or how many features it's got, it's how comfortable you are with it and how well you use it. In videogames/MMO's this translates into a phrase known as "Playing style"-the animation/toon one is most comfortable using, even if it is NOT statistically the best possible option.

2. a lot of people aren't happy jumping from hull-to-hull all the time. a BoP doesn't require you to run to the shipyard between STF, PvP, or storyline/featured missions. For players who do NOT have three years' worth of gear banked up prior to S7 on every toon they own, the choice of a single hull (whatever hull it is) means not having to waste limited minutes (yes, some of us can't spend 8-16 hours/day on the game mastering every possible hull config) switching the deflector/engines/shields/weapons/Bridge stations to have the "Optimum" build for each individual task. a BoP is a generalist in the true sense-you can change its entire role-set (sci, eng/support, tac) between respawns.

Raptors, by contrast, are nothing but DPS machines with a handling issue, with fixed bridge officer stations that pre-set to a specific kind and style of play. Battlecruisers are...well...cruisers, with the limited Tac stations of cruisers, limited sci stations of KDF Battlecruisers, etc. etc.

3. BoPs are actually fun to fly. It's that whole turn-rate thing-it handles, unlike the "proper Escorts" or Raptors, (well, escorts minus the rickokulusly OP Jem bug, anyway), it's got turn-rate and turn-around rate, making it appropriate as a "universal" ship you can finish the Elite STF in, then turn around and go play C&H or Arenas in. You're not Only-good-in-ideal-conditions.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,361
# 19
01-31-2013, 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
I've run Raptors in STF, I've run Battlecruisers in STF, and I keep going back to my BoPs (except on my Sci, who's got a Kar'fi...).

So, let us look at why:

1. any firearms instructor will tell you that it doesn't matter how big your gun is, or how many features it's got, it's how comfortable you are with it and how well you use it. In videogames/MMO's this translates into a phrase known as "Playing style"-the animation/toon one is most comfortable using, even if it is NOT statistically the best possible option.

2. a lot of people aren't happy jumping from hull-to-hull all the time. a BoP doesn't require you to run to the shipyard between STF, PvP, or storyline/featured missions. For players who do NOT have three years' worth of gear banked up prior to S7 on every toon they own, the choice of a single hull (whatever hull it is) means not having to waste limited minutes (yes, some of us can't spend 8-16 hours/day on the game mastering every possible hull config) switching the deflector/engines/shields/weapons/Bridge stations to have the "Optimum" build for each individual task. a BoP is a generalist in the true sense-you can change its entire role-set (sci, eng/support, tac) between respawns.

Raptors, by contrast, are nothing but DPS machines with a handling issue, with fixed bridge officer stations that pre-set to a specific kind and style of play. Battlecruisers are...well...cruisers, with the limited Tac stations of cruisers, limited sci stations of KDF Battlecruisers, etc. etc.

3. BoPs are actually fun to fly. It's that whole turn-rate thing-it handles, unlike the "proper Escorts" or Raptors, (well, escorts minus the rickokulusly OP Jem bug, anyway), it's got turn-rate and turn-around rate, making it appropriate as a "universal" ship you can finish the Elite STF in, then turn around and go play C&H or Arenas in. You're not Only-good-in-ideal-conditions.


Really? You felt the need to post this just to agree with what I said? Or did you just not understand what I said?

And it isn't 'statistically better'. Raptors are measurably, and easily so, better than BOP's in STF's. Just because someone sucks in a raptor or cant seem to drive one for some reason doesn't say a thing about the Raptor. It says something about the player. So don't go making this into something it isn't. If you in particular find basing urself next to the ship selector for the limited time you may be playing, well that's up to you. You'd need to poll about a thousand people before you could apply that to anyone else. If you don't believe that, look it up.

And I've demonstrated ALL this **** being done on ships with COMMON level gear. If you think that takes years to bank up, hey let me know, I'll toss few items your way. I even have a few mirror ships you're welcome to have them.

Oh and if you use the universal slots to simulate a cruiser or a sci, you end up with an ersatz cruiser or sci with none of the benefits of having the actual shipj. What don't you get about that? I mean you can't possibly say that that statement is untrue. It's obvious. And all this gear switching your talking about doing. What the ****? You just went from being the time pressured "lots of players" without "banks of gear" to a group of people with lots of time between respawns (cause you die a bunch) with an inventory full of gear to answer any situation!

Dude you're a riot. Get over it. At no point did I ever say "DO THIS OR STFU"

For you and your response I'd certainly make an exception.

I'm not sure how many times I need to say, "you certainly COULD do it and you're WELCOME to do so and HAVE FUN flying" before you get it. Would one more time help?

Cheers and happy flying!

EDIT: I also have several mirror ships. I'll GLADLY send you some. It only takes a MOMENT to switch between events. Just send me a mail.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.

Last edited by thissler; 01-31-2013 at 12:12 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 966
# 20
01-31-2013, 12:29 PM
I'll take a mirror Vo'quv carrier please Thissler

Good hunting all
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