Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 31
02-01-2013, 09:56 AM
The problem with the JHAS is that it's a Mary Sue ship. I think most people could deal with it being better, but being better than every escort in every way is just too much.

As others have pointed out, the most intolerable aspect of the JHAS is its turn rate. This is because it is significantly better than the other "agile" escorts while also being sturdier and having a better boff layout.

It's also kind of important that some escorts start at a 16 turn rate. They need to be competitive too, so the most agile escorts really can't have more than around 17.

Last edited by inktomi19; 02-01-2013 at 04:52 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 844
# 32
02-01-2013, 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inktomi19 View Post
The problem with the JHAS is that it's a Mary Sue ship. I think most people could deal with it being better, but being better than every escort in every way is just too much.

As others have pointed out, the most intolerable aspect of the JHAS is its turn rate. This is because it is significantly better than the other "agile" escorts while also being sturdier and having a better boff layout.

It's also kind of important that some escorts start at a 15 turn rate. They need to be competitive too, so the most agile escorts really can't have more than around 17.
It doesn't bother me tbh like I say when I see one I just don't decloak anywhere around it but this is right the patrol gets Its turn gimped but has its survivability increased the defiant has good turn higher damage but it survivability is gimped the kdf well the devs don't like the kdf raptor NUF said

But the JHAS is superior in every way which I don't mind as you only see a handful around throughout a days session as long as they don't increase the number o them then so be it
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====----
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 246
# 33
02-01-2013, 10:55 AM
Jhas have one downside it kinda look crap best looking escort in my opinion is the Gurumba Siege destroyer.
Noone.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,767
# 34
02-01-2013, 11:58 AM
the problem with the bug is that it has everything that benefits an escorts ability to do what an escort does enhanced. the best impulse mod, the best turn rate and the best tactical consoles. these all act as effectiveness multipliers, and having several best multipliers on 1 ship balloons numerical performance drastically. to deny this is dishonesty.

most competing ships are diluted in some way or another, or the key stats that determine their primary performance are significantly lower. and wile they may have high stats in some areas, those stats and stations aren't optimized to make that chassis of ship do its main role better. they are just unique mixtures of stats and stations, allowing them to do more things, but not 1 thier main thing as well. the bug is the 11/10 escort, the recluse is the 11/10 heal boat, and the control ship well im not sure the vesta or wells could quite be considered 11/10, but its close enough.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 35
02-01-2013, 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
But then who would fly the patrol escort?

I'm going to come out and say it, who cares? Who is going to fly the Aquarius?

I'm sure someone out there likes that flattened frog looking ship, but personally it drives me nuts that the MVAE & Defiant - actual canon designed ships that are iconic -have things like crappy 3rd tac ensign slots to fill to comply with some design straight jacket that demands it.


On top of this both the Patrol Esort/MVAE/Adv Escort (and whatever fleet versions exist) all got turn rate boosts, so I personally don't see why the Defiant and Patrol couldn't both have a uni ensign - or barring that just give the Fleet Defiant Ens Eng. Then only the patrol escort has the uni ensign.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 02-01-2013 at 12:30 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 827
# 36
02-01-2013, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Hull means very little to pvp its true... so the extra 1-3k it has there over a couple of the escorts is again no big deal.

[vague unquantified statement], therefore [specific statement in support]


Or to put it more bluntly.


Shields mean very little to pvp, therefore the extra 500,000,000 shields supership X has is no big deal.

Dps means very little to pvp, therefore the extra 500,000,000 dps supership X does is no big deal.


I'm sorry, but unless you're going to quantify your incredibly vague statements you're using to make misleading comments, I'm just going to ignore you.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 37
02-01-2013, 05:00 PM
Thing that's kinda silly about the bug is its sheer hull mass (and the resilience its console layout provides). I know, I know, it's a lockbox ship... but canon says it's a glass cannon, and yet while everything else points in that direction, it has this colossal hull value (the carrier-'scort thing might be higher but I'm honestly not sure) with a snoozer's console layout to thicken out the armor.

I suppose the thinking was to balance against the lone Sci slot, but if that's the case then why doesn't MVAE (or some other 'scort) have a 1-4-5 layout?

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,395
# 38
02-01-2013, 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
The only advantage the bug has is the turn rate... thats it. In every other way the fleet ships are a match...

The uni stations are pointless... no one is going to NOT run a sci boff... and why would you put a tack in the other one...

That means there are 2 Possible Bug configurations...

Fleet Escort...

Or dual Sci LT with only one Engi ensign... its fun to mess with but not its in no way a real options...

So its got a fleet escort layout.

Hull means very little to pvp its true... so the extra 1-3k it has there over a couple of the escorts is again no big deal.

Shields NO the bug does not have more shields... yes I won't claim only one sci slot makes the ship terrible or something... but yes it matters. Yes any of the fleet escorts with 2-3 Field gens will have more shielding... and NO neutronium armour is not in anyway a good replacement for that on an escort... one Neut is all you need on any escort or your doing it wrong.

The 5th tac console... nice to have but not unique to the bug... and frankly doesn't add as much real DPS as people seem to think.

Bottom line its better then the other escorts for 9 out of 10 Escort play styles. Sure... but not by the amounts people let on. It has one real advantage... turn rate... and sure it could be taken down one point and still be a fantastic ship. Really thou at the end of the day thats the only real + it has going for it. Well it turns on its proper center and thats just OP. seriously this game has a ton of ass turning escorts.
This is all kind of an advertisement for the thing though... yes, run one neut, but you get double RCS and a Uni for no real penalty because you scale so well with anything you can run there.

~1k hull doesn't sound like a lot but it adds up over the course of a real game. Same reason why there's quite the difference between a .9 'scort and a 1.0 'scort.

vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 217
# 39
02-01-2013, 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorandra View Post
Jhas have one downside it kinda look crap best looking escort in my opinion is the Gurumba Siege destroyer.
This! ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Need help with PVP? Check this thread out!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 40
02-01-2013, 05:48 PM
The biggest BS thing about the JHAS to me is the 4 Engineering Console Slots. A few people have mentioned it but I still get the feeling this aspect is way under-represented.

Highest Shield Modifier for any escort, even more than the Armitage and Fleet Patrol.

Near-Cruiser Hull Strength

Near-Shuttle Turnrate

4 Engineering Console Slots for 2xNeutroniums + RCS + Uni or 3xNeut + RCS

5 Tac Console Slots, allowing for a Uni as well.

Add 'Victory Is Life' for buff stripping as well.

This ship sacrifices nothing for all it's benefits.

It's training wheels for a novice PvP'r with a big wallet.

For a seasoned player, it's unstopable.
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