Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,005
# 11
02-01-2013, 03:27 AM
I wouldn't be opposed to Cruisers getting a slight boost to their combat effectiveness, but I honestly think the core problem lies elsewhere.

The game is incredibly limited in what it can and can't do by its engine. The heavy instancing means there's no open Space like everybody wants, which means players are stuck doing a lot of combat in instanced areas that has no effect on the game world at large, which really negates any need for ships to do anything except deal damage.

Science ships can't use Science solutions to close or collapse dangerous Negative Space Wedgies, nobody can investigate anything, etc. These are old complaints, of course, but it is a failing of the game at the most basic level that the devs factor in the ability for a ship to tank or heal, but never makes it a necessary part of gameplay.

There are ways to solve this problem, though. An idea to change Khitomer Accord Space comes to mind -- perhaps a Science captain in a Science ship could actually close the huge time gate, preventing Probes from using it until the Borg re-open the gate? This way, an Escort-heavy group would still be able to just kill the probes before they got to the gate, but if a group is light on Escorts, a Science captain could close the portal so people could take a little more time destroying the Probes.

Just basic changes to make people feel like their ship types actually matter are really needed.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
# 12
02-01-2013, 08:14 AM
Pew pew doesn't have to be the only path to resolution. Unfortunately it's pretty much the only way to accomplish the objectives.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 13
02-01-2013, 08:29 AM
Geko himself said "OP is the new balance" in one of his podcast interviews last year. With that being said, I don't expect to see anything getting a balance pass, but I do expect we will continue to see more LOLdps escorts getting dumped into the game as time wears on.
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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,632
# 14
02-01-2013, 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcrayven View Post
Geko himself said "OP is the new balance" in one of his podcast interviews last year. With that being said, I don't expect to see anything getting a balance pass, but I do expect we will continue to see more LOLdps escorts getting dumped into the game as time wears on.
Its really not about cruisers vs science vs escorts. its mor about beams vs cannons.

It would be nice to but beams on my escort and not feel like I'm slapping people with a wet sack.

The only reason the 2 I suggest are even limited is because no ship should be able to use every weapon.

So really things like the bop and defiant would be SOL but I see no reason a raptor or an akira couldnt use larger beam arrays given their size.
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Last edited by disposeableh3r0; 02-07-2013 at 11:05 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
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Posts: 1,632
# 15
02-07-2013, 11:12 PM
Bump for posterity.
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Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 14
# 16
02-07-2013, 11:58 PM
Quote:
And really if you stop trying to apply canon to everything (and canon is generaly loose on everything to begin with) you may find you end up with a much more enjoyable play experiance. (unless they add plot device buffs and de buffs that randomly and for no real reason alter the established paramiters of our ships for the sake of story telling.)
You're oh-so-wrong here
actually, applying canon would be what makes the game much more enjoyable, because that would achieve a result very similar to what you envision here:

e.g.:

DEFIANT only gets 2 slots of D(H?)Cs, plus some beams, and 1-2 torpedo launchers.
memory-alpha.org - Phaser cannon

O.c., this would mean a change from restricting weapons to ship types to restricted slots on the ships.
At first, this looks like it would decrease the possibilities in fitting ships - but think what happens when you can only mount ONE +25% phaser damage console on your ship: You'll have to look at all the other consoles that are currently mostly useless ...
Oh, and it would fix a good part of the OPness of the DHC-Escorts

Quote:
I also feel we have been viewing ships in the wrong context. The fact is we see them as ships, when by all appearences the game sees them as characters. This mean that trying to apply a naval view point gets up into the never ending roundabout discussions on purpose and role. I find things make much more sence when you start to think of them like infantry, if compared to the role an individual soldier may take on alot of other things click into place.
Again - go with canon: Ships are build to fulfill one or a handful roles.
But - those roles are NOT "Berseker, Magician, Knightly Healer".
Therefore ...

Quote:
You could then draw similaritys .. where each class excells at a particular function but is also capeable of fulfiling the basic role (killing the other guy before he kills you) adequately without any drop off in performance compared to the other classes..
Again - look at what is canon ... and show me one ship that can't do that (unless some **** plot writers says so, for (t)his one episode).
Actually, most times starfleets ships are so much apart from each other, they all have to be able to fight -and win- alone.

And before I forget ... torpedoes do not do kinetic damage ...


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Posts: 1,632
# 17
02-08-2013, 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drone0815 View Post
You're oh-so-wrong here
actually, applying canon would be what makes the game much more enjoyable, because that would achieve a result very similar to what you envision here:

e.g.:

DEFIANT only gets 2 slots of D(H?)Cs, plus some beams, and 1-2 torpedo launchers.
memory-alpha.org - Phaser cannon

O.c., this would mean a change from restricting weapons to ship types to restricted slots on the ships.
At first, this looks like it would decrease the possibilities in fitting ships - but think what happens when you can only mount ONE +25% phaser damage console on your ship: You'll have to look at all the other consoles that are currently mostly useless ...
Oh, and it would fix a good part of the OPness of the DHC-Escorts


Again - go with canon: Ships are build to fulfill one or a handful roles.
But - those roles are NOT "Berseker, Magician, Knightly Healer".
Therefore ...


Again - look at what is canon ... and show me one ship that can't do that (unless some **** plot writers says so, for (t)his one episode).
Actually, most times starfleets ships are so much apart from each other, they all have to be able to fight -and win- alone.

And before I forget ... torpedoes do not do kinetic damage ...


Yours,
Just Another Drone Of The Federation Collective


But the problem is we are to far beyond canon to apply it. It would require a redesign of the entire game.

And canon, as you mentioned, has a nasty habit of contradicting itself when ever some wrighter needs to create drama. So if all we used was canon, you would still have people complaining that their ship did/didn't do somthing in the show and why is it it can't/can do it in the game.

For the most part this game does not support a "captain of a ship" play style. Its more of a "my ship is my main gun" sort of thing.
Actualy reading things pefore posting will make you look smarter than yelling loudly. Reading comprehension is aparently a lost art.

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Starfleet Veteran
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Posts: 1,632
# 18 Making escorts less "OP"
02-08-2013, 12:39 AM
Lots of threads basicaly saying that the escort classed vessels are too powerful.

So heres an idea, change their stats to be more inline with a BOP.

I hear the flames, but hang on.

Ships under a certain size would have their stats changed to reflect their size IE BOp sized.

Ships over a certain size would be adjusted to more destroyer like stats (see chimera/peng'hu).

This would make escorts more of what they were always supposed to be, glass cannons, and would also make the larger ships (akira, prometheus, etc) slightly less than an escort in terms of manueverability but just as deadly damage wise.

Plus the klingons might stop complaining about the bop being weak. And we all want the klingons to shut up....all that spitting just to say hi.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,005
# 19
02-08-2013, 12:54 AM
It's not really that escorts are OP, so much as Cruisers and Science Ships are underpowered.

The game is so combat-focused that if you aren't packing heat, you're simply at a disadvantage.
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Posts: 1,632
# 20
02-08-2013, 01:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
It's not really that escorts are OP, so much as Cruisers and Science Ships are underpowered.

The game is so combat-focused that if you aren't packing heat, you're simply at a disadvantage.
Yes there is that problem (see sig). But if the more popular damage dealers were less tanky then the existing damage output would seem more significant. And is some were a little less manueverable then you could explain away their tankiness and reduce their damage otput slightly.

And I don't think they are op hence the "OP", I just think it was never well balanced and some of it makes no sence.

Like a ship with a crew of 50 people having the same stats as a ship with a crew of 150.

Plus a defiant with BOP stats means a defiant with some universal slots. only fair for the nerf. AND WE WOULD HAVE A FED RAIDER!!
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