Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 282
# 91
02-02-2013, 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareel View Post
I'm very confused by your posts polie05.

You say it is not OP because it is rock to the paper. As in what kills other escorts also will kill it mainly referring to skilled cc play. Same thing that kills any escort.

Yet it still has superior stats to all other escorts. It has higher turn rate, a great hull/shield mod, etc etc. But that does not make it OP to you.

Then why would it be a huge deal, if you say that stuff does not matter, if the hull was reduced a tad, or the turn rate? That would not make it underpowered as it would still kill the things that all escorts can kill that being the vulnerable target.

Or are you ok with such a change, you just think that OP!!! claims are blown out of proportion?
The claims that it is OP are blown about of proportion. It only has 1 sci console which tends to lead poor shield and hull healing vs something like a defiant. One does not have to be in a escort to kill it, but again it takes soem work. A wells or modius (sp) can easily be on the same level as a bug if both pilots are of equal level. Its just a matter of play style. What your asking for is it weaken it below the norm, to make is like the Brel BoP. That BoP has a higher turn rate for what its worth. The average player who faces a skill player in a bug will creams its the bug, but when in fact its the player. The player can easily switch ships and still wipe the floor with you, its just that we (as skilled players) like pretty ships. (or in my case purple and we like to ERP at the Turks)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 937
# 92
02-02-2013, 02:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
On the contrary, good sir, it IS about the money-or 'rarity' (what rarity???).
the rare odds to get one in the first place (winterevent, doff-packs...). sure, someone bought zen in the first place. but it's not that easy that those are the people who own the bugs now ^^... get it: pay to win also became play to win... it's a hybrid which runs on both, just like a shiny-brand-new-bug-car

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Simple test for you:

would you EVER fly anything ELSE in a PvP match you're serious about winning? Be honest now-do you think you can WIN flying anything BUT a Bugship (or flying in a team with NO bugships-composed only of people you know...)

There are only two types of situations I've observed where Bugships go down;

1. Against other Bugships-full stop.
2. When the pilot's clearly flying something he bought in his first ever PvP experience-as in mistakes Raptor or FedScort jockeys don't tend to make, even when they ARE new-i.e. incredibly, mind-blowingly, elementary mistakes-like burning all your defensive buffs into cooldown in the middle of a hostile FedBall with Trics set to go off nearby, then STOPPING like you're hammering Probes on KASE.

That's it-I've seen Bugship pilots make a lot of slop mistakes that would kill a Raptor, FedScort, or BoP, and walk away giggling-to go and do it AGAIN. The layout and abilities are OP because you can be sloppy, careless, unskilled, and win.
then you not seem pvp a lot.
i use almost everything in pvp, hardly my bug ... i prefer steamrunner, regent, armitage, vesta, others and also: sometimes my bug and no matter what class i take: i've seen many low-bugs and some pro-bugs. but that count's for almost every other ship/career

there are many slippy ways to win without skill. that's not about this ship! it's about ship>s<, gear (aka consoles) in combination with specs and abilites...

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc / Rommie: Lag Industries - D'Waste
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PLZ ADD MARKS-TO-CHOOSE PACKS AND AFK/LEAVER PENALTY TO PVP PUBLIC QUES (not privates!)
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Last edited by wast33; 02-02-2013 at 03:32 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 282
# 93
02-02-2013, 02:40 AM
Honestly, I prefer being lazy these days and fly my sci guy in a Recluse.

Hey me need a "ZOMG DA RECLUSE IS TO OP NERF IT!!!!!11!!!!!!one" thread.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,100
# 94
02-02-2013, 02:50 AM
I have 2 bugs, both bought with EC, total cost about 450 million. I bought the first one for my main toon and then later when I went LTS I made a Borg toon and this time added accuracy trait, so I got one for him. Took a long time to save the EC for the ship and the weapons etc, worked very hard on the exchange buying and selling DOFFs, running Children's Toys every day on 3 toons, you name it I did it, it was an epic grind for me to get the second one which cost 250 Million EC but after flying the first one I knew my new main had to have it.

Yes it is OP, no doubt about it, it's better than a normal escort like a Bugati Veyron is better then a VW Golf GTI. It is incredibly fun to fly and with two copies of APO, EmptE and Aux2Bat + 3 x VR Tech DOFFS + Evasive I doubt I drop much below 100 deg/sec in Fleet Alert, it's so crazy it actually makes me dizzy watching it. Fitted and specced for only single cannons and turrets it sprays out 180 = 360 degrees of death at incredible speeds and kills everything almost instantly except battleships and upwards.

In PvP the speeds are reduced hugely against all the Klinks sucky holds and resists, but it still hammers everything in sight.

It is without a doubt the most exciting, most deadly and most OP ship in the game and you know what...it damn well should be because it took me months of grind to get it. They are keeping them rare and that's a good thing, as people inevitably leave the game between JHAS drop events there are less and less actually flying around, I can go all day and not see another which give me that feeling of exclusivity which I love.

I worked hard to get it, anyone can do the same, not a penny of real money was spent on either of them, just my time saving and waiting for the right time to buy.

If it was nerfed in any way I would be extremely bitter about it and would probably not spend any real cash on this game again (I do spend a lot of real cash for the fleet).

OP yes, worth the effort to get, Absolutely, should it be nerfed, definitely not.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,451
# 95
02-02-2013, 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polie05 View Post
The claims that it is OP are blown about of proportion. It only has 1 sci console which tends to lead poor shield and hull healing vs something like a defiant. One does not have to be in a escort to kill it, but again it takes soem work. A wells or modius (sp) can easily be on the same level as a bug if both pilots are of equal level. Its just a matter of play style. What your asking for is it weaken it below the norm, to make is like the Brel BoP. That BoP has a higher turn rate for what its worth. The average player who faces a skill player in a bug will creams its the bug, but when in fact its the player. The player can easily switch ships and still wipe the floor with you, its just that we (as skilled players) like pretty ships. (or in my case purple and we like to ERP at the Turks)
I don't from what I have seen almost everyone in this thread has basicly said it is a little bit op... but its no the tac consoles or the hull or the shields or the uni slots... its the turn rate... which is out of line sorry to burst your bubble.

Yes the bop has a better turn... good for it it also has 28k hull full spec and even with 3 field gens it won't crack 5 digit shield numbers with anything accept a junk covariant shield. Its not even close to a comaprison... the bop has its own advantages and it pays for them there isn't anything wrong with the bop accept perhaps that it overpays for its advanatages that have basicly been eroded by ships like the bug and mvam ect ... anyway not to get off topic.

Skill trumps ANY ship thats not the point. I can kill 98% of the people that play this game in a tier 3 ship that doesn't mean the tier 3 ship is = stat wise. lol

The issue most people have with the bug isn't that it has Great turn... or the best impulse mod... or the best inertia numbers... or that it has lots of hull... or that it has a 1.0 instead of a .8 shield mod or that it has 2 uni slots or that it has an extra tac console (and lets be honest one sci slot isn't a major handicap... its a drawback but come on its not a big deal for an escort) I think most of the QQ comes from the simple fact that it has ALL of that.

IMO the only thing that needs to be adjusted on the bug is the turn rate... it should have the same turn rate as the fleet escort / Fleet Patrol Escort.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Ensign
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 9
# 96
02-02-2013, 03:18 AM
There are only two types of situations I've observed where Bugships go down;

1. Against other Bugships-full stop.
2. When the pilot's clearly flying something he bought in his first ever PvP experience-as in mistakes Raptor or FedScort jockeys don't tend to make, even when they ARE new-i.e. incredibly, mind-blowingly, elementary mistakes-like burning all your defensive buffs into cooldown in the middle of a hostile FedBall with Trics set to go off nearby, then STOPPING like you're hammering Probes on KASE.


The reason why some bugships stop dead in the middle of a fed ball is becuse they usually have been hit by SNB,VM Target engins and some console goodness all at once. so what do most ppl do when the are immobilized looking at a set of trics moving toward them knowing there is a good chance that evey mine that hits them will crit. im guessing they are going to hit most buffs to try and get the F@%K away.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 937
# 97
02-02-2013, 03:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bain4 View Post
There are only two types of situations I've observed where Bugships go down;

1. Against other Bugships-full stop.
2. When the pilot's clearly flying something he bought in his first ever PvP experience-as in mistakes Raptor or FedScort jockeys don't tend to make, even when they ARE new-i.e. incredibly, mind-blowingly, elementary mistakes-like burning all your defensive buffs into cooldown in the middle of a hostile FedBall with Trics set to go off nearby, then STOPPING like you're hammering Probes on KASE.


The reason why some bugships stop dead in the middle of a fed ball is becuse they usually have been hit by SNB,VM Target engins and some console goodness all at once. so what do most ppl do when the are immobilized looking at a set of trics moving toward them knowing there is a good chance that evey mine that hits them will crit. im guessing they are going to hit most buffs to try and get the F@%K away.
...dunno how much jem deflector's are on my wall, but more than just a few i would guess... all "collected" with several ships . and again: i'm not a pro... it's not about the ship, there's much more to consider.
if you were right i have to ask why, when i'm in my own bug, i'm not immortal and seem to die more often than f.e. in my steamrunner?
you know what? my performance always depends on the actual match! who's in my team, who's on the other, how the teams work together, outbalances/outclasses each other and within themselves. how about my playstyle, how about every others'..
those are the variables for my own success when i pvp in my bug or any other ship (believe me: even in my bug i already got beaten to the hell some of you want the bug to burn in... and not only from other bugs )...

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc / Rommie: Lag Industries - D'Waste
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PLZ ADD MARKS-TO-CHOOSE PACKS AND AFK/LEAVER PENALTY TO PVP PUBLIC QUES (not privates!)
AND DON'T TOUCH OUR DIL!!!

Last edited by wast33; 02-02-2013 at 04:11 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 98
02-02-2013, 04:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polie05 View Post
WOW you have been PvPing since last year!! ZOMG MAD RESPECT BRO!

There no reason for it to be balanced, that thinking would make it so that everything was the same and there would be no variety. there's different layouts on different ships with different stats for a reason. Your just showing even again how in-experienced you are.

At the end of the day you want everyone on beam boats with all the same stats and layouts, get real man this is just a game.


Id have to agree with this bottom part, that would suck if all ships were same/equal ect ect....i like the differences and how you have to plan differently when fighting each one. I fly a bug myself, i have dishes out butt whoopins and taken plenty as well, a friend of mine in our fleet has a vesta and tears me up most of the time, also a guy in another fleet i 1vs1 with often and he usually wins and flies the multi-vector and has lesser gear than me, hes just a better pilot hands down. No special console,,,1 sci slot, that is bugs downside,,higher turn rate, 5 tac slots = upside, its not OP
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 99
02-02-2013, 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wast33 View Post
...dunno how much jem deflector's are on my wall, but more than just a few i would guess... all "collected" with several ships . and again: i'm not a pro... it's not about the ship, there's much more to consider.
if you were right i have to ask why, when i'm in my own bug, i'm not immortal and seem to die more often than f.e. in my steamrunner?
you know what? my performance always depends on the actual match! who's in my team, who's on the other, how the teams work together, outbalances/outclasses each other and within themselves. how about my playstyle, how about every others'..
those are the variables for my own success when i pvp in my bug or any other ship (believe me: even in my bug i already got beaten to the hell some of you want the bug to burn in... and not only from other bugs )...



this right here.

lastnight i went 5-2 in the arena using my bug,,,the 2 losses were massive butt whoopins i think i got 1 kill in those 2 matches, nobody on the team spoke a word, nobody called targets, nobody healed each other (except me which is sad im healing peeps in a bug but they wont heal in a sci/eng ship) the 5 matches my team won, we stuck together and called targets and we pwned. Teamwork is bigger in team pvp then individual ship stats!! I dont care if your the best pvper on STO if your on a crap team that doesnt communicate against an average to good team that does your going to get stomped everytime.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,451
# 100
02-02-2013, 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus614 View Post
Id have to agree with this bottom part, that would suck if all ships were same/equal ect ect....i like the differences and how you have to plan differently when fighting each one. I fly a bug myself, i have dishes out butt whoopins and taken plenty as well, a friend of mine in our fleet has a vesta and tears me up most of the time, also a guy in another fleet i 1vs1 with often and he usually wins and flies the multi-vector and has lesser gear than me, hes just a better pilot hands down. No special console,,,1 sci slot, that is bugs downside,,higher turn rate, 5 tac slots = upside, its not OP
Yes the 1 sci slot is a downside... that is it though.

There is a reason that every experienced Escort pilot that played prior to the bug... all made SURE to get one. Even if they had to drop 400-500 mil EC to do it. Its not worth 400-500m because its only good... or even a bit better. People don't want to admit it but the more I think on it the more I have to say ya its OP. I know its not around anymore so 400-500k seems right... but lets be honest even when it was dropping like mad out of doff packs it never really dipped under 200 mil for more then a few hours perhaps at most.

Every good escort pilot switched to it even if they had to pull 24h stints fixing the exchange to do it. Lots of terrible escort pilots swapped to it as well... which is why it likely doesn't seem all that op to some people. Of course if you know what your doing you can make any ship work.... but the fact that so many people that do KNOW how the game works sold there kidneys for it if they had to says it all.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
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