Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 121
02-02-2013, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post

On more thought: in pvp weapons, consoles and doffs are very very important... there is one reason why my JHAS is more dangerous than my FTER and that reason is the 4x
DHCs [acc]x3, 3xturrets [acc]x3, purple consoles... everything is MK XII and yes, I payed a lot, lot, lot of EC to buy the JHAS, weapos, consoles and doffs. The fed toon has good consoles and weapons, but not so good.
yes the weps do matter but no so much the purple consoles. doffs do help. the problem is the bug ship has an rsp. the defaint has epts 1 2. the jem has better sheilds and turn rate the defiant has less on all accounts. if the jem loses its sheilds can rsp, if that fails can tss 2 if that fails there is 3 sdo. less see defaint sheilds break tss2, that fails 3 sdo, that fails well hello respwn timer.

if the defiant was able to use cloak under combat that would actually help it alot more. then you would actually get to use better spike damage, not wast a console slot and actually slot the cloak console. i care less that jem has 4 engy consoles. most go 2 neut consoles , other morons go 4. i fly my bug with no armor consoles. my engy lay out most times is 2 mk12 purple rcs ,tact converter borg console. sci is sheild emiter, tact is 4 tact phaser consoles and zero point. if i tryed that layout in my defiant it would be pure death.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 122
02-02-2013, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
I have both the JHAS and the fleet tactical escort retrofit, I use the first on a klingon toon and the second on a fed one... both characters have the same traits and very similar skill.

the better turn rate of the JHAS helps in 1 vs 1 scenario; a many vs many scenario is very different and the JHAS pay its worse shield.

I think that isn't the bug ship too strong, but the fed ship disadvantaged by it's boffs layout... In pvp the best build for an escort is IMHO only cannons based (no torpedoes) for a greater alpha strike, so 3 tactical station (like in the fed ship) are a waste...
The best BOFFs layout is the one with a cmd tactical station, lt cmd tactical station, a lt sci station, a lt eng station and a sci or eng ensign station. This layout let you have 2 TT, 2 CRF, 2xAPO and 1 APB or APD, plus sci and eng abilities to buff/heal shield and regenerate the hull. in pvp you do not need others tactical abilities... this is why the 3 tactical station of the tactical escort restrofit are (IMHO) a waste.


On more thought: in pvp weapons, consoles and doffs are very very important... there is one reason why my JHAS is more dangerous than my FTER and that reason is the 4x
DHCs [acc]x3, 3xturrets [acc]x3, purple consoles... everything is MK XII and yes, I payed a lot, lot, lot of EC to buy the JHAS, weapos, consoles and doffs. The fed toon has good consoles and weapons, but not so good.
Sir you are giving reasons WHY the Bug is an overpowered ship instead, of arguing otherwise...
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 135
# 123
02-02-2013, 04:30 PM
You know the main issues is it's impressive turn rate, and its boff layout. If the other escorts had universal ensign then I could run the defiant as patrol escort layout and do more damage in it than I can in the bug. (cloaking damage bonus) Same give the option to fleet advance escort to have a universal ensign and it will have better livability to match the bug. The turn rate could be lowered by 1 point and not be over-nerfing it in my opinion.

A fleet defiant can rip through shields as fast as a bug can. Crf3 and usually boom, unless its a good premade team that has capable healers.

I can't wait until we get a fleet guramba with 5 tac slots 2 sci slots, 3 engineer slots. That ship would be unstoppable haha!
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=490421 We want this help build support!
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,546
# 124
02-02-2013, 04:36 PM
The defiant is fine as it is... people asking for it to have a patrol escort setup are missing the point... if you want to fly a patrol escort fly a damn patrol escort.

The defiant is fine with the setup it has... you people need to think outside the box a bit more.

I PREFER my defiant setup over the patrol setup for many builds. If you want to fly an escort that still bursts and uses torps the defiant is the winner hands down.... Use doffs and keep ONE COPY of EPTS 2 up 100% of the time... and back it up with a 100% up EPTE 1... and you will be moving in that little guy... throw in some Omega goodness and it keeps up turn wise with most bugs... as not that many people put RCSs in there already good turning bugs.

Defiant is fine....
Patrol is fine...

Mostly the bug is fine as it is as well... it could loose 1-2 points of turn and I don't think anyone would have call to cry about it.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,681
# 125
02-02-2013, 04:57 PM
I don't want to fly the damn Patrol Escort.

I want to fly the iconic ship. Even the damn Captain level refit has the Ens ENG, Lt ENG setup. So there's no reason why the VA level Defiant can't have that setup.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 126
02-02-2013, 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
The defiant is fine as it is... people asking for it to have a patrol escort setup are missing the point... if you want to fly a patrol escort fly a damn patrol escort.

The defiant is fine with the setup it has... you people need to think outside the box a bit more.

I PREFER my defiant setup over the patrol setup for many builds. If you want to fly an escort that still bursts and uses torps the defiant is the winner hands down.... Use doffs and keep ONE COPY of EPTS 2 up 100% of the time... and back it up with a 100% up EPTE 1... and you will be moving in that little guy... throw in some Omega goodness and it keeps up turn wise with most bugs... as not that many people put RCSs in there already good turning bugs.

Defiant is fine....
Patrol is fine...

Mostly the bug is fine as it is as well... it could loose 1-2 points of turn and I don't think anyone would have call to cry about it.
while i go agree with alot of what you do say, i tend to go against you on this. i can see why you say the defiant lay out is fine. but thoes days of doing 1 shot skills on a decloak with torps on crusiers are over. the basic setup of premades is 3 sci 2 tacts. to have a tact in cloak waiting for that kill will not happen. your hurting your team doing that. try that against turks, nova core, tsi or even sob will get your team killed. next is crazy talk if i ever heard it, doffs to reduce cd on eptx skills? first off it does reduce cd but not always. thats just asking to be killed. no sdo doffs? really? most basic doff lay out is 2 apd and atleast 2 sdo. i do know alot of people run 3. i dont i run 2. im still hoping that lazy nurse will start doing her job. btw alot of people run atleast 2 mk12 purple rcs consoles. the bug should have a base turn of 18, NOT 20.


for anyone to say i qq about the bug ship, maybe i do. but guess what i own it. why do i qq if i own it? because i want to play in my defiant. but to remain competitive in pvp i need to be in my stupid bug.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,546
# 127
02-02-2013, 07:12 PM
Negative... here is my current Defiant build... Go kill premades with it. Enjoy

Tac team 1 - High Yield 2 - Omega 1 - Rapid Fire 3
Tac team 1 - Rapid fire 1 - Omega 1
High Yield 1

Emergency power to engines 1 - EPTS 2

Hazards 1 - TSS 2

2 DC (thats right DC)
2 Quantums
2 Turrets
1 KCB

Glider 2 piece + maco

2 Flow Cap sci units.... +Shield heal rep ones if you can.

3 Tet Dmg units 2 Quantum

2-3 Torp doffs... with 2-3 Dmg Control doffs...

No you don't insta pop... and you will like tet DC with glider... they won't kill anything but facings drop all the time... and then light them up with the constant stream of high dmg qunatums.

People are way to hung up on running 4 dhc on everything... that is very 6 months ago.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 02-02-2013 at 09:14 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 128
02-02-2013, 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
People are way to hung up on running 4 dhc on everything... that is very 6 months ago.

If Elite Fleet Shields proc resistance per shot and not per cycle, then DCs have actually gotten worse.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 02-02-2013 at 10:49 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,546
# 129
02-02-2013, 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
If Elite Fleet Shields proc resistance per shot and not per cycle, then DCs have actually gotten worse.
All nrg has... but you still need to drop shields... which now have multiple passive regens and crit hit recharges.... The point of the DC is to get the same glider effect (in fact you get much more do to the power drain on only 2)... + the KCB proc is almost needed to keep glider dmg at max.

Trust me the build I listed works... 2 turrets + 2 dc... + 125 power glider all the time will strip a facing fleet shields or not... and the quantums will do there work... cycle HY 2 and HY 1 and with doffs keeping them spitting... it makes people very uncomfy... everyone is used to there shields being invinci mode these days... do something that pullls there facings down and they start doing all sorts of very stupid things they wouldn't have done back when they expected that to happen.

Still Cryptic has screwed up the mechanics so bad I pvp in GW 95% of the time these days anyway... so what do I know anyway I guess.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 876
# 130
02-03-2013, 12:23 AM
Antoniosalieri, what you've posted is a perfect example of a fail build. You need to pick a role and stick to it, either fully into tet glider or fully into spike damage. As it stands, you've built something that is mediocre at both.
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