Hold up, the difference between Fleet ships and non-Fleet version is that "fleet ships do not come with a special console but typically have +10% Hull HP, +10% Shields and a 10th console slot." Besides EC cost that's it?
First, most cost Fleet Ship Modules and how you acquire them is not relevent, you might just buy then with Zen or from the Exchange but Fleet Ships still cost 20k Fleet Marks and a provision on top of modules, granted the Provision is taken from the Fleet and not the player but the Fleet Marks? they come from the player, same as Ship modules.
Second, they can equip its Zen Store version console meaning the Fleet Defiant can Cloak and the Fleet Galaxy can separate and so on as long you own the console, plus owning those ships get a discount meaning its a upgrade for the cost of 500 Zen if you own the ship were the minus is its a character unlock, not account so discharging it means you cannot just reclaim another ship.
Third, some ships dont come with a console but a build-in ability ... the Fleet B'Rel and the Fleet Excelsior come with its Zen Store build-in abilities, this made their cost in Fleet Modules higher (5 vs 4) but discount still applies (only 1 module), meaning you can actually buy a B'rel with EC using the Exchange route if you have a about 25-50 million EC to spare.
This is not counting the Aquarius and Hoh'SuS that cannot be found outside the Fleet system and that require a T4 Shipyard and the "anniversary" versions of the Odyssey and Bortas that dont cost modules, only FCs and provisions but they cost 10 times more FCs.
I could go go about the rest of the post but the fact is you STILL need 20,000 Fleet Marks minimum to buy ANYTHING. the argument that "you dont contribute" is false because in order to even being able to buy it the player had to contributed to a fleet at some point, the only argument that can be made is about provisioning but then again ... who the hell decided to Tier cost provisioning?
Last edited by f2pdrakron; 02-02-2013 at 08:51 AM.
@f2pdrakon - Fair enough. I apologize for making the cost argument seem trivial.
Even after your detailed description of cost (your first point), the actual, playable difference (your second and third points) between the two is - in my estimation - not worth the effort.
The rest of my argument, I think, stands on its own: the OP should not be discouraged at the cost or means to get what he wants (a Fleet version of a Tier 5 ship) and that he can get it with dedication and patience.
If the ship you want (not need) can only be acquire from a Tier 5 Military starbase, then I suggest the stress is not worth the effort.
At the same time, it's not an impossible goal. Ultimately, you will need to employ some sort of personal honor. In other words, use some etiquette and just a wee bit of patience.
* Look for a Fleet on the forums - don't shop in zone chat, don't accept blind invites
* Once you join one, don't take anything from the Fleet - donate to the Fleet for a certain period of time and a month or two is a good marker of committment I think.
* Be active with the Fleet - the vets who built the base (without you) need to feel comfortable you are not taking advantage of their effort
* Get what you want
* Win the game
After that, you can do what you want with the Fleet. But who knows - you may have actually (omg) made friends and found a great online community that makes your gameplay more rewarding than a single starship.
As William Osler said, "We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life." I'd suggest the same applies to your situation in an online game.
I concur totally. STO tries to be a true MMO, it still has a ways to go, but the Fleet system encourages that aspect of the game... interaction and shared adventure. While I do the content on my own, I enjoy being a member of a fleet. It is not onerous, and you should enjoy it. I certainly am unable to put dedicated time into the game, but I am committed.
By the way, I love the Osler quote. He was quite a renaissance man, for an internist!
I pointed the cost as getting a Fleet Ship is not a effortless task, at the very minimum there is 20,000 Fleet Credits to be made and even with the Daily Reports this will take a while and the system is set in a way you cannot even make a Fleet to generate Fleet Credits for yourself because there is a series of blocks to prevent that.
The fact they locked most discount ships under a T5 shipyard is rather discouraging and I did not even touched that, I believe the lowest Tier requirement for a Fleet Ship with a discount is the Excelsior at T3, the Bortas and Odyssey are locked at T5 and the Aquarius and Hoh'SuS are locked at T4, the entire system is simply backyards and a push to force Fleets into a upgrade race leading to the current situation.
Also dont discount point 2, we are talking about a Defiant with FIVE tactical console slots (Zen Store have 4 Tactical slots) and 3k more Hull, that alone gives the Fleet Defiant a potential +30% more damage by slotting a 5th Phaser Relay and the cost is about 5-10 million EC.
As for point 3 ... you should understand some people want to fly some ships, I have the Odyssey so I am interested in the Aquarius but Cryptics reply was "go join a Fleet with a T4 Shipyard", the same goes for certain retrofits ... yet the cost is double, not only we have to pay 200,000 Fleet Marks but also we have to be in the "right" Fleet, this is disheartening and I just said "well screw that, ship sucks anyway" in relation to the Aquarius and I doubt I am alone in this.
And no, this isnt about "dedication and patience" because a Fleet will take over 6 months to reach the point were they have access to a T5 Shipyard, I have not gone over the actual cost involved in that because I certainly remember what I thought when I seen the Embassy II upgrade ... it was "Are they <expletive> kidding me?"
I still don't see the real need for any of these ships. People talk about being 'competitive', but most people don't PVP that much.
For the effort they cost to reach, they simply aren't worth it. My own fleet Fedside just hit tier 1 shipyards, which are the only ships I was interested in anyway. We might get to tier 2 by the end of this year. My KDF is in a very large fleet but I've only gotten the Fleet Vorcha , and that mostly for looks -- prefer the JHAS and the Destroyers.
That being said, I can't really fault the fleets for charging for access, and without such a carrot would anyone have put all those resources into the SB in the first place?