Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 131
02-03-2013, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Antoniosalieri, what you've posted is a perfect example of a fail build. You need to pick a role and stick to it, either fully into tet glider or fully into spike damage. As it stands, you've built something that is mediocre at both.
no ive seen this type of build. but its dhcx2 3 turents and 2 torps. with rep system now its useless. ive tryed tet weps and they dont really seem to do anything compaired to phasers or polaron.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 595
# 132
02-03-2013, 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by broken1981 View Post
yes the weps do matter but no so much the purple consoles. doffs do help. the problem is the bug ship has an rsp. the defaint has epts 1 2. the jem has better sheilds and turn rate the defiant has less on all accounts. if the jem loses its sheilds can rsp, if that fails can tss 2 if that fails there is 3 sdo. less see defaint sheilds break tss2, that fails 3 sdo, that fails well hello respwn timer.

if the defiant was able to use cloak under combat that would actually help it alot more. then you would actually get to use better spike damage, not wast a console slot and actually slot the cloak console. i care less that jem has 4 engy consoles. most go 2 neut consoles , other morons go 4. i fly my bug with no armor consoles. my engy lay out most times is 2 mk12 purple rcs ,tact converter borg console. sci is sheild emiter, tact is 4 tact phaser consoles and zero point. if i tryed that layout in my defiant it would be pure death.
the greater turn rate of the JHAS is an advantage only in a 1vs1 scenario... in a many vs many scenario the bug ships is disadvantaged by its worse shields. In a 1 vs 2 scenario I win only if the 2 opponents do not collaborate... else my better turn rate is useless.
Moreover there are several way to have an instant boost to your turn rate: deuterium surplus, evasive maneuvers (+ purple conn officers), AtD, a pair of APO... You can also use TBR... and you are helped by a better shields system...

I also think that in a pvp build you need only a few basic consoles: neutronium alloy, one RCS (or the console from the temporal set), a shield emitter ad the appropriate tactical consoles. The others console generally are (IMHO) a waste.


Quote:
Originally Posted by starcommando101 View Post
Sir you are giving reasons WHY the Bug is an overpowered ship instead, of arguing otherwise...
I tried to tell something very different:

JHAS and FTER have a very similar shield modifier... 0.99 is not so far from 1, but the FTER has 2 science console so can have greater and better shield. That is IMHO an advantage in a many vs many, the typical pvp scenario, more than having a better turn rate... simply because in a many vs many scenario probably you will be targeted by several ships at the same time.
Also the hull it points is very similar, even if the JHAS has a bit more hull, the difference is less than the DPS of one of my unbuffered DHC.

I think that the real difference between the two ships is the ensign tactical station of the FTER... I simply think it's a waste, so all in all is not the JHAS overpowered but the FTER underpowered in pvp (but much better in pve).

Last edited by eurialo; 02-03-2013 at 09:12 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 133
02-03-2013, 11:26 AM
Except with superior Turn Rate, Impulse modifier and Engineering room for extra resists, even in group focus fire it can pull a 180 and survive the 2-3 seconds it takes to get out of combat range to heal up and restack alpha buffs.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 134
02-03-2013, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurialo View Post
the greater turn rate of the JHAS is an advantage only in a 1vs1 scenario... in a many vs many scenario the bug ships is disadvantaged by its worse shields. In a 1 vs 2 scenario I win only if the 2 opponents do not collaborate... else my better turn rate is useless.
Moreover there are several way to have an instant boost to your turn rate: deuterium surplus, evasive maneuvers (+ purple conn officers), AtD, a pair of APO... You can also use TBR... and you are helped by a better shields system...

I also think that in a pvp build you need only a few basic consoles: neutronium alloy, one RCS (or the console from the temporal set), a shield emitter ad the appropriate tactical consoles. The others console generally are (IMHO) a waste.




I tried to tell something very different:

JHAS and FTER have a very similar shield modifier... 0.99 is not so far from 1, but the FTER has 2 science console so can have greater and better shield. That is IMHO an advantage in a many vs many, the typical pvp scenario, more than having a better turn rate... simply because in a many vs many scenario probably you will be targeted by several ships at the same time.
Also the hull it points is very similar, even if the JHAS has a bit more hull, the difference is less than the DPS of one of my unbuffered DHC.

I think that the real difference between the two ships is the ensign tactical station of the FTER... I simply think it's a waste, so all in all is not the JHAS overpowered but the FTER underpowered in pvp (but much better in pve).
Read what the guy above me said.

The turn rate makes it's defense very high.

Most people don't even run neutroniums in the engi spot (two max) and us it for universal consoles
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 282
# 135
02-03-2013, 04:30 PM
Most people do run a nuet, at lest one of them. In a team how si the ZOMG ITZ TURNZ rate so op? The answer is, it's not. For all you people that cry thats it's so op are just not skilled players. It IS the best escort in game, hands down; but there are other ships that are equally as good in different categories. Your blaming on being pop'ed in the Jem and not for your own skill set. These days it seems like people have to blame something/someone else for failing and not themselves. (ZOMG ITZ HAX!) Second, thsoe that QQ about the Jem space set have no clue what they are talking about. It has a proc to strip 1 ability and then an immunity is applied. The set its self is not that great, the borg/maco set IS better.

SO go back to your "wack-a-spacebar" build and prepare to get pwn over and over again by skilled players.

/thread
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,260
# 136
02-03-2013, 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
Antoniosalieri, what you've posted is a perfect example of a fail build. You need to pick a role and stick to it, either fully into tet glider or fully into spike damage. As it stands, you've built something that is mediocre at both.
I don't think I'll take fail build advice from you hurly look me up in game any time you want to see how fail such a build is.... @husanak I should be on your friends list. lol

Seriously thought for reasons people have pointed out full energy does not work anymore all 4 cannons does these days is recharge shields for people... or boost there resists, if there running Dbag shields. You need torps... running just 1 is a terrible idea as we all know... for torps to work you have to have them up all the time. Which is why you really need 2+doffs. I know the build I listed goes against everything we have done for 3 years... but it honestly works better then I expected DC dmg sucks but it seems to allow glider to do its thing... the KCB proc really heals that as well.... as wrong as it seems it works. Overload builds suck mostly now for spike as the stupid shield regens / resists are just out of hand... I found 2 DC + 2 turrets was just enough to get facings... I did try 4 dc to test with and it was procing shield junk like mad.

The days of the 4 dhc escorts are over imo... unless cryptic does something about the out of hand shield junk they have added.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 02-03-2013 at 05:07 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,793
# 137
02-03-2013, 05:03 PM
Nooo, now the mods will know.


Yeah, uh, that guy up top is just kidding about being Hus.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,260
# 138
02-03-2013, 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
Nooo, now the mods will know.


Yeah, uh, that guy up top is just kidding about being Hus.
I'm going to bet they don't care anymore... besides I have unlimited free email addresses. lol
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,194
# 139
02-03-2013, 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by polie05 View Post
Most people do run a nuet, at lest one of them. In a team how si the ZOMG ITZ TURNZ rate so op? The answer is, it's not. For all you people that cry thats it's so op are just not skilled players. It IS the best escort in game, hands down; but there are other ships that are equally as good in different categories. Your blaming on being pop'ed in the Jem and not for your own skill set. These days it seems like people have to blame something/someone else for failing and not themselves. (ZOMG ITZ HAX!) Second, thsoe that QQ about the Jem space set have no clue what they are talking about. It has a proc to strip 1 ability and then an immunity is applied. The set its self is not that great, the borg/maco set IS better.

SO go back to your "wack-a-spacebar" build and prepare to get pwn over and over again by skilled players.

/thread
ermmm.... I call BS on your "Skill" claim-it takes NO skill to run a Bugship, just money and/or time to buy it.

Most of that time, incidentally, would be spent on PvE, as in EC grinding, with some Doffing along the way.

An UN_BUFFED JHAS is as good as a lot of ships can temporarily get with buffs and rep passives, there is no 'skill' involved beyond the barest of basics to running one.

Let us go over this again...

Turn rate of a Bird of Prey (but without the disadvantages)
Shields of a Cruiser (but without the disadvantages)
One of the best Hull strengths you can get on an Escort (matches some cruisers, even)
Universal Bridge officer slots (you don't get that on FedScorts or Raptors)
High Impulse modifer (there may be some fighters that can match this)
Five tac consoles (the other ships with 5 TC's sacrifice heavily for them-only the Jem ship sacrifices NOTHING for it...)

1 sci slot you'll never actually need.

and you say it's not OP.

B.S., it's not OP, it's Munchkin. It's the kid who used to show up for a D&D game with all 18's on his stat sheet, and a Legendary Relic magic item he found under the cupboard at home (and for a 'flaw' a "Tragic Past" that reads like a particularly bad form of marysue fanfiction.) It's munchkin to the level of the guy who shows up to the Battletech game with his Clan/Mixed tech custom assembled out of cherry-picked items from Maxtech, with the 0/0 pilot with EI and DNI implants (buffered, of course), myomer subcutaneous armor, etc. to ignore pilot hits...in a 3025 setting.

It's an Ewok with more Darkside points than the EMPEROR, (and his own private sun-crusher) level.

Okay, maybe that last bit was an exaggeration.

but don't pretend it takes ANY skill to run this thing, don't lie to yourself that way. No skills are actually NEEDED to run a Bugship save one: "Hit Spacebar and steer on Autofire".
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

Are you KDF looking for a reason to log in to your KDF Main? consider that every time you do, you're giving the finger to the people that want the KDF as a faction to die out from neglect.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 282
# 140
02-03-2013, 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
lol then bring it son, I will show you what it takes. From the sounds of it your just a button smashing noob anyways. Let us skool on how its done. You seem to think that just because someone has a Jem bug then can instantly kill you or are OP'ed. The Steamrunner is way more OP than a bug in terms or healing. epts1x2 and 2rsp. Really now, thats way to OP compared to the Jem bug. Your just hatin because a skilled player in a Jem bug can pop you just about every time.
Bring your best 5 and we will love to skool you on PvP.
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