Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 151
02-03-2013, 10:34 PM
I got bored of reading the pigeon english spelling, pot stirring and PVE player inaccuracies after page 3 so:

Pound for pound i think the Jemmy is over powered. I thought so before i got one and i still think so. But there are SO MANY Jemmies around it doesen't matter anymore. After the previous Q Wonderland they were still a rarety, kept at the 800-1Billion mark. But since then they've been re-released twice by our greedy game developers. They are now HALF the price they once were. A car was "OP" before everyone got one. Now cars are pretty normal.

This subject has become tedius. It usually flares up because of the same few who don't yet own one wanting to make it clear they don't for whatever reason. Before i may have been the same. But JHAS' are so common now anything special about them is lost in the mix. Get over it.

On the subject of "Oh noes! If somebody has these new consoles equipped they'll be in perma-godmode!!11" - no, because that involves 160million EC's worth of devotion that won't really pay off unless the player is with a decent team that can exploit the 2 consoles properly. Get over it.

As i said, the subject is tedius, kids. We've had these topics for over a year now, since then the ship has been buffed. They put it where it is for a good reason. It makes Cryptic lots of money every time. And as long as total idiots pay fistfuls for it while i can so far grind to buy TWO of them, the world is fine in my book. They're paying so i don't have too.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 369
# 152
02-03-2013, 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquitaine985 View Post
I got bored of reading the pigeon english spelling, pot stirring and PVE player inaccuracies after page 3 so:

Pound for pound i think the Jemmy is over powered. I thought so before i got one and i still think so. But there are SO MANY Jemmies around it doesen't matter anymore. After the previous Q Wonderland they were still a rarety, kept at the 800-1Billion mark. But since then they've been re-released twice by our greedy game developers. They are now HALF the price they once were. A car was "OP" before everyone got one. Now cars are pretty normal.

This subject has become tedius. It usually flares up because of the same few who don't yet own one wanting to make it clear they don't for whatever reason. Before i may have been the same. But JHAS' are so common now anything special about them is lost in the mix. Get over it.

On the subject of "Oh noes! If somebody has these new consoles equipped they'll be in perma-godmode!!11" - no, because that involves 160million EC's worth of devotion that won't really pay off unless the player is with a decent team that can exploit the 2 consoles properly. Get over it.

As i said, the subject is tedius, kids. We've had these topics for over a year now, since then the ship has been buffed. They put it where it is for a good reason. It makes Cryptic lots of money every time. And as long as total idiots pay fistfuls for it while i can so far grind to buy TWO of them, the world is fine in my book. They're paying so i don't have too.
Have my babies

But there is time for devs to release the next OPed thing... The Vesta was thought to be the chosen one but then it turn out to be a bust. But there will be another op thing to hit the scene... Make the bug look like a toy... Gigs cryptic... Ggs in advance
The Average PvP player

1) Teamwork and timing is #1
2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
3) You are going to die, just get back up

Last edited by starcommando101; 02-03-2013 at 11:02 PM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 136
# 153
02-04-2013, 04:07 AM
I suspect that the JHAS wouldn't be such an issue if a lot of people didn't already feel as though escorts were superior in a lot of ways to the other ship classes. As the most powerful of all the escorts, it becomes a very easy target for hatred in the community.

As has been being discussed in other threads recently, a large part of the blame with the success of the JHAS probably lies with Dual Heavy Cannons. As they are now, they provide far too much burst in comparison to the other weapon classes. Since the JHAS has an extremely high turn rate, it has the highest potential to utilize the DHC's, making it seem like a potent and overpowered advantage.

If DHC firing rate was normalized to the standard of the DC's and single cannons, the JHAS would still be really good, but the damage would be far more manageable in a team setting. That isn't to say that it isn't still itemized too high in stats compared to the other escorts, but it would manage to keep it from being the insane damage-pressure machine it is now.

Turn rate has a high value only because it's the best stat to increase damage with DHC's. Most other escorts need a burst ability like Beam Overload to land kills where the JHAS can keep enough uptime to do without.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=93695767000&dateline=  1347284393
Lag Industries STO/TOR Guild
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 417
# 154
02-04-2013, 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Put yet another way...

"Would Turkish RP Heroes EVER field a team of 5 in Arena or Ker'rat, without a Jem'Hadar Attack ship on the lineup?"

Answer's probably "No, they're not stupid."
I am afraid that answer is not correct. Turkish RP Heroes is not dependent on the JHAS.

While I will not deny that the JHAS is in my opinion the best escort overall (and that being the reason why JHAS is the prefered escort of choice), ships like the Fleet Escort, Fleet Patrol Escort, Steamrunner, or Moebius are also viable in team settings. If set up right, these ships can be operated just like the JHAS. An opposing team would hardly feel the difference.

A skilled escort player will be almost as deadly on other, "lesser" escorts as well.

Put Broken or Mara Jade in a Defiant, or Shimmer in a MVAM, or Randal in a Moebius, or Yoda or Strike in a fricking shuttle , and you'll see what I mean.

In some of my videos (link in signature) among other things you can see me flying a Fleet Patrol with some success as well.

And by the way, Turkish ERP Heroes is NOT Turkish RP Heroes (damn you Broken )

Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some pew pew PVP action!

Last edited by ilhansk; 02-04-2013 at 07:16 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 114
# 155
02-04-2013, 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
ermmm.... I call BS on your "Skill" claim-it takes NO skill to run a Bugship, just money and/or time to buy it.

Most of that time, incidentally, would be spent on PvE, as in EC grinding, with some Doffing along the way.

An UN_BUFFED JHAS is as good as a lot of ships can temporarily get with buffs and rep passives, there is no 'skill' involved beyond the barest of basics to running one.

Let us go over this again...

Turn rate of a Bird of Prey (but without the disadvantages)
Shields of a Cruiser (but without the disadvantages)
One of the best Hull strengths you can get on an Escort (matches some cruisers, even)
Universal Bridge officer slots (you don't get that on FedScorts or Raptors)
High Impulse modifer (there may be some fighters that can match this)
Five tac consoles (the other ships with 5 TC's sacrifice heavily for them-only the Jem ship sacrifices NOTHING for it...)

1 sci slot you'll never actually need.

and you say it's not OP.

B.S., it's not OP, it's Munchkin. It's the kid who used to show up for a D&D game with all 18's on his stat sheet, and a Legendary Relic magic item he found under the cupboard at home (and for a 'flaw' a "Tragic Past" that reads like a particularly bad form of marysue fanfiction.) It's munchkin to the level of the guy who shows up to the Battletech game with his Clan/Mixed tech custom assembled out of cherry-picked items from Maxtech, with the 0/0 pilot with EI and DNI implants (buffered, of course), myomer subcutaneous armor, etc. to ignore pilot hits...in a 3025 setting.

It's an Ewok with more Darkside points than the EMPEROR, (and his own private sun-crusher) level.

Okay, maybe that last bit was an exaggeration.

but don't pretend it takes ANY skill to run this thing, don't lie to yourself that way. No skills are actually NEEDED to run a Bugship save one: "Hit Spacebar and steer on Autofire".



shields of a cruiser??

1 sci console does not = shields of a cruiser, i dont even bother using my sci console in my bug for shields and with mark XII maco shields im barely over 9k shield cap
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 156
02-04-2013, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by starcommando101 View Post
Have my babies

But there is time for devs to release the next OPed thing... The Vesta was thought to be the chosen one but then it turn out to be a bust. But there will be another op thing to hit the scene... Make the bug look like a toy... Gigs cryptic... Ggs in advance
the vesta is the op science ship, it has edges over every other science ship in the game making it the "must have" of science ships.

you show me a sci build on any other sci ship and ill show you how the vesta can do it, and do it better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 542
# 157
02-04-2013, 08:15 AM
There's one thing* I don't understand. The JHAS is available to both factions, so ANYYONE in the game can potentially fly one if they put enough effort towards getting the EC for one.

*Ok, there's LOTS of things, but only one relevant to this thread


The way I see it, the people QQing about balance are the people that are just too lazy to actually go and pick one up for themselves, and are bitter about the players that are lucky/wealthy enough to own one.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,730
# 158
02-04-2013, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dma1986 View Post
The way I see it, the people QQing about balance are the people that are just too lazy to actually go and pick one up for themselves, and are bitter about the players that are lucky/wealthy enough to own one.
You clearly haven't read the thread in question.

No one is bitter about anything. Why is it when someone makes an observation about the JHAS in comparison to other Escorts you have some weasel claim that it's a null observation because you don't own it or are jealous?

Apart from a few people, no one is asking for a nerf. They just want the other Escorts to be made relevant again.

I don't mind the JHAS having the stats it has, I just want an excuse to take my Defiant into a fight against one.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,448
# 159
02-04-2013, 09:00 AM
I'm not gonna argue whether or not the Bug is the best escort in the game, I don't really have anything to add to that.

BUT

In a way, the Bug is kind of like SNB DOFFs. Namely that at the start, they were extremely rare, worth a ton of EC. They got much more common eventually, and much cheaper because of it. As such, the proliferation of SNB DOFFs is what eventually led to the big SNB-crisis last year.



On a similar note, the bug ship is the same way. Originally it was extraordinarily rare. However, now that they've been re-released twice, there are a ton more out there, so they're much more apparent when you see them. As such, maybe before it was...tolerable to deal with bugs. Regardless of whether they are OP or not, they were few and far between.

Now, not so much. You see them much more often, and because of it, they are playing a larger role in PvP, much like the SNB DOFFs did.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 586
# 160
02-04-2013, 09:21 AM
16 pages of Jem'hadar QQ'ing, 16 pages that aren't annoying in the balance topics. Objective accomplished
John Sheridan@playhard88 - FED Tactical
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
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