Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,274
# 161
02-04-2013, 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus614 View Post
shields of a cruiser??

1 sci console does not = shields of a cruiser, i dont even bother using my sci console in my bug for shields and with mark XII maco shields im barely over 9k shield cap
It have a 1 shield modifier, Cruisers have also a shield modifier of 1.

Yes, you can add one more Field Generators on a cruiser as they typically have 2 sci slots but does not change the fact the JHAS have the shield modifier of a typical cruiser were only the Ody and Fleet Cruisers have a higher one.

The only escort that have the same shield modifier is the Steamrunner, even the Fleet Escorts stay at .99 modifier.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 162
02-04-2013, 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
Yes, you can add one more Field Generators on a cruiser as they typically have 2 sci slots but does not change the fact the JHAS have the shield modifier of a typical cruiser were only the Ody and Fleet Cruisers have a higher one.

The only escort that have the same shield modifier is the Steamrunner, even the Fleet Escorts stay at .99 modifier.
Well what class of ships do you think the JHAS is in?

Galor = Shield mod 1.3
D'kora = Shield Mod 1.15
C-store Ody = Shield Mod 1.15
Fleet AC-R / SC / Galaxy = Shield Mod 1.1

Vesta = Shield Mod 1.35
Wells = Shield Mod 1.45
Orb = Shield Mod 1.4

Recluse = Shield Mod 1.375


I get it, there is power creep and people hate it - but so many players have severe tunnel vision when it comes to the JHAS.

Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,495
# 163
02-04-2013, 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Well what class of ships do you think the JHAS is in?

Galor = Shield mod 1.3
D'kora = Shield Mod 1.15
C-store Ody = Shield Mod 1.15
Fleet AC-R / SC / Galaxy = Shield Mod 1.1

Vesta = Shield Mod 1.35
Wells = Shield Mod 1.45
Orb = Shield Mod 1.4

Recluse = Shield Mod 1.375


I get it, there is power creep and people hate it - but so many players have severe tunnel vision when it comes to the JHAS.
In order of appearance:

Galor (Lockbox)
D'Kora (Lockbox)
C-store Oddy- Fifty dollars
Fleet AC-R/SC/Galaxy-what's my turn rate again?
Vesta-Science ship, a Shield mod that high is EXPECTED.
Wells-LOCKBOX Science Ship, dittoes.
Orb-Lockbox
Recluse-Lockbox.

Out of your ENTIRE LIST, you have three dedicated Sci ships (counting threepacks in the case of the Oddy and Vesta as single entries each), Two $50 purchases (Vesta and Oddy), and a single "Fleet" ship.

Galor, D'Kora, Wells, Orb, and Recluse are all Lockbox/Lobi ships and considerably rarer than the Bugship, (we can double the numbers regarding the Wells, by counting the Korath in there if you want, just like doubling down on the Oddy by also counting the Bort.)

Out of this entire list, the only hulls that MIGHT be considered common are the Oddy, Vesta, and Fleet Assault Cruisers. Notably, the Vesta's a science ship-that's a class that's SUPPOSED to have a high Shield Mod-it's their 'thing'. (witness the 1.2 Shield mod on the Intrepid R) this is a trait shared with the Wells/Korath (Lockbox lotto ship.)

Mimey made a valid point here:
Quote:
In a way, the Bug is kind of like SNB DOFFs. Namely that at the start, they were extremely rare, worth a ton of EC. They got much more common eventually, and much cheaper because of it. As such, the proliferation of SNB DOFFs is what eventually led to the big SNB-crisis last year.



On a similar note, the bug ship is the same way. Originally it was extraordinarily rare. However, now that they've been re-released twice, there are a ton more out there, so they're much more apparent when you see them. As such, maybe before it was...tolerable to deal with bugs. Regardless of whether they are OP or not, they were few and far between.

Now, not so much. You see them much more often, and because of it, they are playing a larger role in PvP, much like the SNB DOFFs did.
Now, should we go through the C-store and shipyard and list for you the Cruisers that have a 1.0 shield modifier? Then we can go through SY,C-store, and Fleetyard lists for ESCORTS with a 1.0 modifier-that willl take a HELL of a lot less time than listing the cruisers with it-because 1.0 is pretty much bog-standard cruiser shield modifier, but there aren't any Escorts with it.

Then we can go through and list the ESCORTS with a turn rate of 20. That won't take long either-because from Fleet to C-Store to ESD shipyard/Qo'Nos shipyard, the only SHIPS with a 20 turn rate are either shuttles, or the BoPs...which pay for their turn rate with a hull/shield more akin to toiletpaper and strong prayers.

shall we proceed further down this?

How 'bout firepower?

JHAS: 5 Tac Consoles, ability to mount DHC

Other 5 console ships:

Fleet Tac. Escort
Bortasque(Tactical variant)
Fleet (something) Escort
Oddy Tac?(not sure on this one)

Did I miss any? Probably. Not many, none with a turn of 20 in any rate, and the escorts with it certainly aren't running a shield modifier of 1.0, while the cruisers don't even break past 6 on turn rates.

Performance:

Galor: on a par with (okay, slightly, marginally better than) a Vor'cha. runs the same general level as a Tor'Kaht.

D'Kora: A Tor'Kaht's competitive with this one too-the S.M. isn't linked to raw superior maneuverability-it actually has to USE its shields.

C-store Oddy: Cruiser, obviously-but without the high defense numbers, so again, it actually NEEDS sci slots filled with shield gennies most of the time. can be taken by comparable KDF Fleet cruisers or T5 Battlecruisers-aka the "Free" ships you get at Brigadier are still competitive with this ship.

Galaxy/Assault cruiser: lack of turn rate means that shield mod isn't a big deal-a couple seconds longer to get through it with a refit Vorcha's DHC/Turret combo. it's not nimble enough to escape...which is also true of the Bort on the KDF side.

Vesta/Wells/Korath: are science ships, the Vesta compares roughly equal (with some, few, improvements) to the Fleet Corsair or Marauder carriers, (if you buy the $25 base model, as opposed to the $50 three-pack.) The Wells and Korath really don't HAVE a cheap/fleet/FTP equivalent for comparison-the only FTP "Science" ship KDF side is the Vo'Quv carrier. ON the FEDSIDE, there are several good Sci ships, and the Wells fits in well with that group without negatively impacting balance.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 514
# 164
02-04-2013, 11:10 AM
But the steamrunner is fine with 1 shield mod.

Silly argument. JHAS is good because it turns 40 deg/sec - make the other escorts turn as good and there would be less whines.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,495
# 165
02-04-2013, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by magniacapra View Post
But the steamrunner is fine with 1 shield mod.

Silly argument. JHAS is good because it turns 40 deg/sec - make the other escorts turn as good and there would be less whines.
Steamrunner's RARE-like D'Kora, Galor, etc. rare-it was only available for a limited time as part of a specific cross-company event and only available to those who bought it through STEAM during said event.

and the scuttlebutt is, it's not as good as the Bugship, it's supposedly about on a par with the Fleet Defiant.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 437
# 166
02-04-2013, 11:26 AM
lol

Get used to it

$$$ = better ships

Free to $25 = decent ships

I have to get over that I'll never have a T5 fleet ship, but I ain't whining, I don't wanna spend the $$$ for it. ( the $$$ referring to the cost to get your base/shipyard to T5 )
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,668
# 167
02-04-2013, 11:26 AM
?

Steamrunner is still up for sale.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/9908/


And yeah, the Steamrunner is really hampered by the ENS Sci.

The only thing I'd try with it is a Damage Control build of some kind.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,431
# 168
02-04-2013, 11:37 AM
the steam runner was on sale for a limited time, the dlc is still available.

am i the only one who thinks this only 1 sci console argument is a complete joke of an excuse? oh, it can only slot 1 field gen! ...you people seriously still use those? thats sad.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 169
02-04-2013, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Out of your ENTIRE LIST, you have three dedicated Sci ships (counting threepacks in the case of the Oddy and Vesta as single entries each)
Yeah, that was the point.

Feel free to go and compare those lockbox/fleet Sci & Cruiser ships to Cstore Sci and Cruiser ships that are not the Vesta or Ody.


Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Galor, D'Kora, Wells, Orb, and Recluse are all Lockbox/Lobi ships and considerably rarer than the Bugship,
?


Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Notably, the Vesta's a science ship-that's a class that's SUPPOSED to have a high Shield Mod-it's their 'thing'.
Again, missing the forest for the trees.

The Vesta has 0.5 higher mod than other C store sci ships.

The Wells has a higher mod (1.45) than all C store sci ships.

The Galor has Sci ship level shielding at a whopping 1.3 mod, .15 higher than the Ody.


Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
(witness the 1.2 Shield mod on the Intrepid R) this is a trait shared with the Wells/Korath (Lockbox lotto ship.)
The Wells has a 1.45 mod.



Mimey's point is irrelevant.

Fleet & Lockbox ships are effectively their own tier at this point. They have no business being compared to the majority of "T5" C store ships when they are clear Tier 5.5 or higher in stats.

Career Officer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 514
# 170
02-04-2013, 01:07 PM
Don't forget the Mobius with 1.15 shield mod.
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