Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 658
# 21
02-04-2013, 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barachielangel View Post
Actually, I've got the Galaxy-X with the Venture-class skin, and that thing is DEAD sexy. I'd cruise around in that for my cruiser, but I've read a lot of hate for the Galaxy-X dreadnaught in it being underpowered for its level, so I've been avoiding dragging it out again.

EDIT: Still doing research. is Scatter Shot better than Rapid Volley?

Crap all this talk of ship builds, and I haven't asked about my skills. My character build is probably crappy too.
The big problem with the Galaxy-X is that it has almost identical mobility stats to the Ody. The Ody gets enough hate for that itself, while having 2 different console abilities which minimize it as an issue (the Aquarius can deal damage regardless of the mothership, and separation provides a huge buff to mobility). The Galaxy-X has it even worse than that though: the things that are supposed to make it unique and powerful are DHCs and the Phaser Lance, both of which have tiny arcs that it has incredible difficulty using. And of course the Gal-X also lacks the extra hull and shields that the Ody gets (1.0 vs 1.15 shield modifier, 40k vs 42k base hull). So in the end the Gal-X is sort of like the basic Assault Cruiser (same boff and console layouts), just a little weaker (because of the poor turn). I'd take the free Ambassador over either the Gal-X or Ody pretty much any day. Actually, that's a nice free ship that you should definitely consider. It has solid mobility, a fair number of tac slots, and a LtC sci for that optional-saving Gravity Well 1.

Cannon Scatter Volley vs Cannon Rapid Fire is one of those things that people will argue about a lot, because there isn't a clear answer. CRF is better against a single target, unless that target fires a heavy plasma torp that the CSV would be able to intercept. CSV provides higher DPS anytime it can hit 2 or more targets, but in doing so it attracts additional agro that the shooter may or may not be able to handle. Personally I always run CSV and consider it superior, but people will argue with that.

For skills, there will probably be some differences between the best cruiser and escort specs (although maybe not, I often forget how easy non-scis have it, since for a sci ship you have to run as much of the escort stuff as possible plus sci stuff). I can still give some general guidelines though. The following skills should be at least rank 6: Weapons Training, Energy Weapons, Projectile Weapons (unless you're using all energy), Maneuvers, Targeting Systems, Hull Repair, Structural Integrity, Shield Emitters, and Shield Systems. The following skills should be at least rank 3: Attack Patterns (definitely go higher with the escort), Energy Weapons Specialization, Warp Core Efficiency, Electro-Plasma Systems, Impulse Thrusters, Warp Core Potential, Shield Performance, and Weapon Performance. Any of the skills I said were minimum 6 are good candidates for maxing out, and most of the minimum 3 ones will benefit from as much as you can put into them. The exceptions are the power boosting skills, which have negligible benefit from the last 3 levels. Also to be considered: Hull Plating/Armor Reinforcements (especially for a cruiser), Projectile Specialization, Auxiliary Performance, Engine Performance, Power Insulators, Threat Control (just for the cruiser), and Flow Capacitors (superb with Tetryon or Polaron weapons, no point otherwise). You can plan out a build with this tool: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/ and get an idea of the effects of all the skills from this: http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skil...%20Effects.htm
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 22
02-04-2013, 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barachielangel View Post
I'm ... honestly not sure what half those acronyms meant, but I think I figured it out. Thanks.

... That's weird. I"ve got the Odyssey. It says I've got the Odyssey Bridge/Interior selected in customization, but its not the bridge I've seen in all the vids. Is it because I got this one during the last anniversary?

Okay, ultimately it looks like I'm looking at trying one of two builds/layouts.

Pure DPS in the Retrofitted Defiant, an Survivable DPS in the Odyssey. What skills should I be looking at?
What you have, the "Anniversary" Odyssey, is the Odyssey Star Cruiser. It does NOT come with the goodies, such as the "Aquarius" Bridge (the massive Odyssey-exclusive bridge), the universal ensign slot, or the fifth console slot. Nor does it come with, nor work with, any of the gimmick consoles, e.g. chevron separation.

Ultimately the Odyssey Star Cruiser is a gimped version of the Odyssey Science Cruiser. To see an Odyssey in its full glory you'd need to pick one of the specialized versions, and probably the three-pack as well so you could pick which consoles you want (often, the answer is "all three").

I would NOT recommend this ship as a choice for a tactical captain, as it is a heal-centric cruiser; that said, it's still serviceable and I've seen some surprisingly effective tac builds on it. So it's far from impossible, just sub-optimal.

Note that, even though the Odyssey Star Cruiser is offered as a T5 Starbase ship, it is inferior to fleet ships - only the C-Store version is on par with fleet ships. (The fact that it uses fleet credits, rather than FSM, as its payment likely gives this away, however)

Also note that any build you try on the Ody Star Cruiser will work on a C-Store Ody - if I recall correctly the only thing some DON'T have is the power distribution, as the Operations Ody has +5 power to all subsystems, and the Odyssey Tactical has +10 to weapons, +5 to shields and +5 to aux.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 42
# 23
02-04-2013, 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadensecura View Post
The big problem with the Galaxy-X is that it has almost identical mobility stats to the Ody. The Ody gets enough hate for that itself, while having 2 different console abilities which minimize it as an issue (the Aquarius can deal damage regardless of the mothership, and separation provides a huge buff to mobility). The Galaxy-X has it even worse than that though: the things that are supposed to make it unique and powerful are DHCs and the Phaser Lance, both of which have tiny arcs that it has incredible difficulty using. And of course the Gal-X also lacks the extra hull and shields that the Ody gets (1.0 vs 1.15 shield modifier, 40k vs 42k base hull). So in the end the Gal-X is sort of like the basic Assault Cruiser (same boff and console layouts), just a little weaker (because of the poor turn). I'd take the free Ambassador over either the Gal-X or Ody pretty much any day. Actually, that's a nice free ship that you should definitely consider. It has solid mobility, a fair number of tac slots, and a LtC sci for that optional-saving Gravity Well 1.

Cannon Scatter Volley vs Cannon Rapid Fire is one of those things that people will argue about a lot, because there isn't a clear answer. CRF is better against a single target, unless that target fires a heavy plasma torp that the CSV would be able to intercept. CSV provides higher DPS anytime it can hit 2 or more targets, but in doing so it attracts additional agro that the shooter may or may not be able to handle. Personally I always run CSV and consider it superior, but people will argue with that.

For skills, there will probably be some differences between the best cruiser and escort specs (although maybe not, I often forget how easy non-scis have it, since for a sci ship you have to run as much of the escort stuff as possible plus sci stuff). I can still give some general guidelines though. The following skills should be at least rank 6: Weapons Training, Energy Weapons, Projectile Weapons (unless you're using all energy), Maneuvers, Targeting Systems, Hull Repair, Structural Integrity, Shield Emitters, and Shield Systems. The following skills should be at least rank 3: Attack Patterns (definitely go higher with the escort), Energy Weapons Specialization, Warp Core Efficiency, Electro-Plasma Systems, Impulse Thrusters, Warp Core Potential, Shield Performance, and Weapon Performance. Any of the skills I said were minimum 6 are good candidates for maxing out, and most of the minimum 3 ones will benefit from as much as you can put into them. The exceptions are the power boosting skills, which have negligible benefit from the last 3 levels. Also to be considered: Hull Plating/Armor Reinforcements (especially for a cruiser), Projectile Specialization, Auxiliary Performance, Engine Performance, Power Insulators, Threat Control (just for the cruiser), and Flow Capacitors (superb with Tetryon or Polaron weapons, no point otherwise). You can plan out a build with this tool: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/ and get an idea of the effects of all the skills from this: http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skil...%20Effects.htm
Yeah sounds like for this character, if I absolutely HAD to have a cruiser, I'd be better off going Excelsior or Ambassador. Thanks!

As for the CSV/CRF debate, I have my solution. I have a TAC officer setup for each at the Commander level. I'm just going to give each a try and swap them around till I find which one I like better.

Reset my skills last night, and paid MUCH closer attention to the skill descriptors. Funny, it seems like as an Escort captain, I have more SP sunk into Engineering skills than Tactical ones.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 42
# 24
02-04-2013, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red01999 View Post
What you have, the "Anniversary" Odyssey, is the Odyssey Star Cruiser. It does NOT come with the goodies, such as the "Aquarius" Bridge (the massive Odyssey-exclusive bridge), the universal ensign slot, or the fifth console slot. Nor does it come with, nor work with, any of the gimmick consoles, e.g. chevron separation.

Ultimately the Odyssey Star Cruiser is a gimped version of the Odyssey Science Cruiser. To see an Odyssey in its full glory you'd need to pick one of the specialized versions, and probably the three-pack as well so you could pick which consoles you want (often, the answer is "all three").

I would NOT recommend this ship as a choice for a tactical captain, as it is a heal-centric cruiser; that said, it's still serviceable and I've seen some surprisingly effective tac builds on it. So it's far from impossible, just sub-optimal.

Note that, even though the Odyssey Star Cruiser is offered as a T5 Starbase ship, it is inferior to fleet ships - only the C-Store version is on par with fleet ships. (The fact that it uses fleet credits, rather than FSM, as its payment likely gives this away, however)

Also note that any build you try on the Ody Star Cruiser will work on a C-Store Ody - if I recall correctly the only thing some DON'T have is the power distribution, as the Operations Ody has +5 power to all subsystems, and the Odyssey Tactical has +10 to weapons, +5 to shields and +5 to aux.
Yeah, I'm learning how to read specs, and was beginning to put two and two together. I'll save the Odyssey triple pack for leveling up one of my Engineer or Science officer.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 267
# 25
02-04-2013, 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugspatteredjack View Post

The new T5 Ambassador (available only during the three year anniversary event) is pretty decent too and in my opinion on par with the Excelsior.
Really?! What game are you playing??? The only thing Ambassador has over Excelsior, is a higher end Sci slot.
Excelsior has better turning, 4 tac slots, greater DPS capability, and more crew than Ambassador.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/dofftrader/yoreantiques/DOFFtrader.gif

Last edited by paragon92518; 02-04-2013 at 01:18 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 42
# 26
02-04-2013, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paragon92518 View Post
Really?! What game are you playing??? The only thing Ambassador has over Excelsior, is a higher end Sci slot.
Excelsior has better turning, 4 tac slots, greater DPS capability, and more crew than Ambassador.
*nods* Yeah, I'm thinking the Excelsior-refit is going to be my secondary ship as a Tactical Captain.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,553
# 27
02-04-2013, 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barachielangel View Post
*nods* Yeah, I'm thinking the Excelsior-refit is going to be my secondary ship as a Tactical Captain.
Um... why? If you're a tac captain, use a destroyer. Breen Ship is a good choice, since it gives you damage ability, a NICE chunk of hull, good turn rate and a pretty damn good BOff setup. However in the event you missed it, I would actually recommend you get an armitage. There is no need for you to fly a cruiser.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Tired of Wasting EC and Time trying to get Superior Romulan Operative BOffs? Here's a cheap and easy way to get them, with an almost 100% chance of success.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 42
# 28
02-04-2013, 01:42 PM
Here's my updated Escort Loadout, btw.

USS Astarte, Sao Paolo-class Retrofit
Ship Loadout


Forward Arc
1x Quad Phaser Cannon (Scaling) (Purple)
2x Dual Heavy Phaser Cannons Mk XI (Purple)
1x Quantum Torpedo Launcher Mk XII (Purple)

Equipment
Full Aegis Set

Rear Arc
3x Phaser Turret Mk XI (Purple)

Devices
20x Shields Battery
20x Engine Battery

Engineering Consoles
Universal Cloaking Device
2x Neutronium Alloy Mark XI (Blue)

Science Consoles
Universal Assimilated Console
Field Generator Mark XI (Blue)

Tactical Consoles
3x Phaser Relay Mk XI (Blue)
Zero Point Quantum Chamber Mk XI (Blue)

Skill Loadout

Cmdr. Tactical
Tactical Team I
Attack Pattern Beta I
Cannon: Scatter Volley II
Cannon: Scatter Volley III

Lt. Cmdr. Tactical
Torpedo: Spread I
Torpedo: Spread II
Attack Pattern Beta II

Ensign Tactical
Tactical Team I

Lt. Engineering
Emergency Power to Shields I
Auxiliary Power to SIF I

Lt. Science
Hazard Emitters I
Transfer Shield Strength I

I ultimately went with spread as my default set up due to the volume of enemy pack engagements in PVE. However, I do have my spare tactical officer outfitted with CRF3 and TRV3 so I can swap my Commander Stations about when I know I'm going in for a big solo fight.

So far I've done two of the 2800 episodes and the loadout has served me well.

Last edited by barachielangel; 02-04-2013 at 01:45 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 29
02-04-2013, 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barachielangel View Post
Yeah, I'm learning how to read specs, and was beginning to put two and two together. I'll save the Odyssey triple pack for leveling up one of my Engineer or Science officer.
Just to clarify on what I said before - the pay version of the Odyssey is a good choice for a tactical cruiser captain, IMO. Just reread what I said and it could be interpreted as indicating that the Odyssey is not a good ship for a tac, and while some think anyone who uses a tac in a cruiser is a raving madman, I am far from one of them.

Just wanted to make sure I was clear on that.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,191
# 30
02-04-2013, 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barachielangel View Post
As for the CSV/CRF debate, I have my solution. I have a TAC officer setup for each at the Commander level. I'm just going to give each a try and swap them around till I find which one I like better.
PvP you'll want CRF. PvE you'll want CSV, especially if you have APB and in groups, and double-especially if you have torp spread. Getting into a team that all use CSV will blow away the entire sphere spawn in ISE in less than 3 seconds.

(You know, the spheres that start to show up once you blow a generator? Then we nuke the transformer before they arrive, so you have around 10 spheres trickling towards you? The entire group melted before any of our hyper-plasma torps reached them, so the torps went on to piss off the gate. )

"Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference." - James T. Kirk
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