Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 328
# 171
02-04-2013, 02:24 PM
Wells > Vesta
[10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,169
# 172
02-04-2013, 02:40 PM
the time ships have truly absurd shields, and the well's turn is absurd as well.
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,217
# 173
02-05-2013, 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Yeah, that was the point.

Feel free to go and compare those lockbox/fleet Sci & Cruiser ships to Cstore Sci and Cruiser ships that are not the Vesta or Ody.
Galors and D'Koras are tough opponents-but they're not even in the same LEAGUE as Jem ships in terms of performance in PvP, meaning that even with their Shield mods, they're still killable, even with a BoP that isn't the Hoh'sus.

Likewise the Timeships. They're GOOD, but not Jem'Hadar good, even someone as crap at this game as I am, has a decent chance of taking one down. Minus the special consoles it's even a pretty DECENT chance, which is not something that can be said of the Jem Bug.


IOW, yes, they're better than Free ships-but not so much better that they render the non-lockbox/pay ships irrelevant. The Bugship, otoh, DOES render other ships irrelevant. If these are, as you say later in the post, T5.5, then the Bugship's a T6 level opponent-as I said EARLIER, taking one into most PvP is like taking a Fleet Somraw up against T3 opponents-The only way it's a "Skilled Kill" driving a Bugship, is either (a) said bugship's facing OTHER bugships, or (b) the Bugship driver's new to the game and facing a well-established Premade team while carrying a random Pug group.





Quote:

Again, missing the forest for the trees.

The Vesta has 0.5 higher mod than other C store sci ships.

The Wells has a higher mod (1.45) than all C store sci ships.

The Galor has Sci ship level shielding at a whopping 1.3 mod, .15 higher than the Ody.




The Wells has a 1.45 mod.

The intent of the statement was "High Shield Multiplier"-sci ships are SUPPOSED to have that.
Quote:
Mimey's point is irrelevant.

Fleet & Lockbox ships are effectively their own tier at this point. They have no business being compared to the majority of "T5" C store ships when they are clear Tier 5.5 or higher in stats.
Yup, and among those, the Jem Bug is the one (and only) design that lacks any flaws to counter it's advantages.


Quote:
lol

Get used to it

$$$ = better ships

Free to $25 = decent ships

I have to get over that I'll never have a T5 fleet ship, but I ain't whining, I don't wanna spend the $$$ for it. ( the $$$ referring to the cost to get your base/shipyard to T5 )
The fleet ships don't match up to the Bugship-there are a couple Feddie fleet ships that come closer than everything else, but that's like saying an Opel Kadet is almost a BMW M-5, or a 72 camaro is ALMOST a Ferrari F-40.

as for the rest of the statement, it raises the question of whether winning PvP in THIS game is worth paying for, when the 'bragging rights' come down to "I bought a win" ?
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

I play KDF, because being a genocidal maniac works better with Klingons, than explaining it as a member of Starfleet.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,217
# 174
02-05-2013, 12:52 AM
Really, this whole discussion IS "Mushroom cloud and steel casing"-A nerf is not the answer (nor should it be), The developers released the JHAS and will continue to re-release it over time, and it will continue to show up at Ker'rat and in the PvP ques, and it will likely persist in being "The" flawless DPS ship, because it's a choice that really can NOT be unmade at this point.

Which, I suspect, is just a statement of where things stand at present. About the ONLY nerf that I could see being worth the effort, is too complicated a set of coding for the Dev team to attempt-that being, to restrict it, and perhaps the other Lockbox/Lobi ships, to a specific technology base while leaving the other, faction-specific, ships free to use whatever sets happen to be available. (i.e. restricting Jem ships to a choice of drop gear OR Jem'Hadar sets.)

This would reflect too much work to attempt, and would probably create undesirable side-effects (bugs-as in defective code interactions that damage the playability of the game for some users).

The direction of Cryptic's development thus far, has been to remove faction tech barriers, not maintain or strengthen them. This, too, will not change, if anything it will accellerate, given past development by Cryptic's staff.

The alternative for those that want "Balanced" PvP, is to establish league play and actually enforce restrictions on gearing (Hilbert's "Classic" PvP effort being a prime example of this), but in "Open" PvP, it's pretty much going to be the team willing to spend the most money is going to win, which in a weird way reflects auto racing's old adage "Speed costs money, how fast you wanna go?"
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

I play KDF, because being a genocidal maniac works better with Klingons, than explaining it as a member of Starfleet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 232
# 175
02-05-2013, 02:40 AM
I honestly dont care if you think you can defend such an op pos exploit machine. You cant.with a copy paste exploit build the bug can turn circles around any other escorts, rendering said escort defenseless as it is impossible to get your dhcs to bear. On top of this, the speed renders the bug a supertank as 60% of shots miss, even if they decide to toy with you and not just sit behind you with no ability to turn on them.

It is a routine occourence in kerrat for a bug to tank 5 plus enemy ships taking no damage at all, resulting in ships just giving up and the bug free to chase down anyone he choses. Its an escort, not a tank, and the way players have bastardized it is a joke and completely gamebreaking. People that pilot these I win buttons know this and are some sad geeks.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 176
02-05-2013, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
the time ships have truly absurd shields, and the well's turn is absurd as well.
Nonesense. I rock 17k shields with MACO MK12, with 2 shield consoles. And the turn rate is decent
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,169
# 177
02-05-2013, 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by devorasx View Post
Nonesense. I rock 17k shields with MACO MK12, with 2 shield consoles. And the turn rate is decent
well, i suppose its not quite so parameter breaching, the fleet sci ships mostly have a 1.43 shield mod. the wells only turns like a qin, no one thinks thats decent, maybe they arent OP at all!
gateway links-->Norvo Tigan, Telis Latto Ruwon, Sochie Heim, Solana Soleus
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 663
# 178
02-05-2013, 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
well, i suppose its not quite so parameter breaching, the fleet sci ships mostly have a 1.43 shield mod. the wells only turns like a qin, no one thinks thats decent, maybe they arent OP at all!
Nope hardly

Now give me a timeship with performance equivalent of the JHAS performance then yes, i will agree to your statement that timeships are powerful.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 123
# 179
02-05-2013, 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
It have a 1 shield modifier, Cruisers have also a shield modifier of 1.

Yes, you can add one more Field Generators on a cruiser as they typically have 2 sci slots but does not change the fact the JHAS have the shield modifier of a typical cruiser were only the Ody and Fleet Cruisers have a higher one.

The only escort that have the same shield modifier is the Steamrunner, even the Fleet Escorts stay at .99 modifier.
Again your not going to get some 15k-20k shield cap on a jem bug,,,and even if you could it would be useless as you dont have the sci abilities to heal that much cap, 2 universal stations that are only LT and i use one for eng, and one for sci.

I switched to a full borg setup just messing around and my shield cap now is a hair under 7k
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 180
02-05-2013, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Galors and D'Koras are tough opponents-but...
You have veered off into a different discussion. The conversation was on shield mods, and the apparently amazing shield mod of the JHAS compared to "cruisers" - which meant standard C-store T5 cruisers.

Which is a laughably silly thing to compare them to in the face of Fleet & Lockbox Cruisers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
even with their Shield mods, they're still killable...
Are you actually saying the JHAS is unkillable?



Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Likewise the Timeships. They're GOOD, but not Jem'Hadar good
The Wells class has a base 15 turn on a Sci ship, 1.45 shield mod and the ability to completely forego any tac boff stations in favor of all out healing/Sci load out.

As usual most people either don't notice or care, it's all tunnel vision on the JHAS.



Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
The intent of the statement was "High Shield Multiplier"-sci ships are SUPPOSED to have that.
Irrelevant.

People are in this very thread complaining about a .99 vs. 1.0 difference in shield mods for the JHAS vs. the Fleet Patrol.

So the Wells, Galor and Recluse Shield mods are part of the conversation as far as I'm concerned.

Fleet Voquv? 1.1 Shield mod.

Recluse Carrier? 1.40 Shield mod.

The funny part? The Recluse carrier basically usurps the place of a healboat Cruiser.



Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
as for the rest of the statement, it raises the question of whether winning PvP in THIS game is worth paying for...

I'll give you the chance to set me straight, are you telling me that you use a free RA level up ship exclusively in pvp?

That you do not now, and have never used a C-store ship or console?

That you have not purchased a Fleet ship?


Because if those things are not true, then you are effectively buying into the same system - just in some way you've managed to justify to yourself.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 02-05-2013 at 07:40 AM.
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